Political Science People

[EricF]

I think to properly answer this question you first need to seperate yourself from popular perceptions regarding the issues of terrorism by fundamental groups, as well as gain a better understanding for Islam as a religion and its historical role in state governments within the Middle East. A historical perspective focusing on governments in the region both recent and quite far back in history will illuminate a lot of the fundamental beliefs in the region which are taken to the next level by some of these terrorist groups.

Once you have a firm or at least a general understanding of the region's historical instability, the magnetization people seem to have towards charismatic figures and their natural rise to power in somewhat of a totalitarian sense, as well as a few other key factors, you will then gain a more full understanding of some of today's Islamic fundamentalism. There is a great cultural divide between our regions (less emphasis on the predominant religions themselves than most lend credit to) that makes much of our discussion over here regarding situations over there more or less akin to what I would call mental and verbal masturbation.

As soon as you understand the political climate that has dominated the region almost uniformly for perhaps at least a couple of centuries, you will start to form your own reasons (typically more valid than those read in the local newspaper or on a candidate campaign TV commercial) for why terrorism acts are committed against us.

I have a bit more to say on the matter if anyone is interested (might even be able to answer the original question directly, gasp), but it's time for a company-paid dinner right now.

[Boost_Junky]

I think to properly answer this question you first need to seperate yourself from popular perceptions regarding the issues of terrorism by fundamental groups, as well as gain a better understanding for Islam as a religion and its historical role in state governments within the Middle East. A historical perspective focusing on governments in the region both recent and quite far back in history will illuminate a lot of the fundamental beliefs in the region which are taken to the next level by some of these terrorist groups.

Once you have a firm or at least a general understanding of the region's historical instability, the magnetization people seem to have towards charismatic figures and their natural rise to power in somewhat of a totalitarian sense, as well as a few other key factors, you will then gain a more full understanding of some of today's Islamic fundamentalism. There is a great cultural divide between our regions (less emphasis on the predominant religions themselves than most lend credit to) that makes much of our discussion over here regarding situations over there more or less akin to what I would call mental and verbal masturbation.

As soon as you understand the political climate that has dominated the region almost uniformly for perhaps at least a couple of centuries, you will start to form your own reasons (typically more valid than those read in the local newspaper or on a candidate campaign TV commercial) for why terrorism acts are committed against us.

I have a bit more to say on the matter if anyone is interested (might even be able to answer the original question directly, gasp), but it's time for a company-paid dinner right now.

Bravo Eric. Very insightful.

Some of things one may find when researching the Muslim faith will further understanding. Add that with a historical account of the region and you’re on your way to understanding why America is seen by many in that region in such a negative light.

America has time and time again disrespected their faith, traditions and taken sides in their wars. By doing so we have created a long standing hatred for America and it’s beliefs. I.E. Funding wars, selling weapons, taking Israel’s side with everything, buying oil from the lowest bidder in turn funding rebels, unprovoked occupations, hiring lawless renegade contractors to fight our wars and building military bases on holy land. Just to name a few.

I don’t expect the US to act perfect. I also understand by fighting a war, there will be an enemy. However, we can do much better. Much, much, much better.

[EricF]

Bravo Eric. Very insightful.

Some of things one may find when researching the Muslim faith will further understanding. Add that with a historical account of the region and you’re on your way to understanding why America is seen by many in that region in such a negative light.

America has time and time again disrespected their faith, traditions and taken sides in their wars. By doing so we have created a long standing hatred for America and it’s beliefs. I.E. Funding wars, selling weapons, taking Israel’s side with everything, buying oil from the lowest bidder in turn funding rebels, unprovoked occupations, hiring lawless renegade contractors to fight our wars and building military bases on holy land. Just to name a few.

I don’t expect the US to act perfect. I also understand by fighting a war, there will be an enemy. However, we can do much better. Much, much, much better.

We have always always analyzed the region on our terms and by our standards. Women can't vote, don't have certain civil rights. What an appalling scenario! What barbarians! It is just different there. If you disrespect a woman and her brothers get wind of it, you will end up in a gutter or worse. In some societies of course..

It is truly another world there, and we need to stop applying our standards to their societies, which to them are as alien and unreasonable as theirs are to us. Our decades of such impositions have driven many people over there beyond the point of reasoning and have in some ways precipitated the rise of some of these terrorist organizations on a grassroots level. Give them a charismatic figure (or a number of them) who can effectively channel feelings of distaste, betrayal, and misunderstanding into hatred, violence, and fanaticism, and you find yourself onto the road to where we are now.

We approach conflicts from the outside with little regard for the historical significance of these conflicts or the historical outcomes of similar conflicts and why the people are really divided in the first place, and project our own imaginary scenarios onto them. Descendants of two rival tribes or regions who have hated each other for centuries could be seen in our eyes as a noble struggle to fight against communism or totalitarianism. An insurgence against a totalitarian leader who does not favor the US in matters of global trade might then be construed as a rise against an oppressive dictator. A dictator reinforcing his arsenal to retaliate to a nearly imminent attack from Israel could be seen as a threat to our national security, thousands of miles away.

None of that can possibly be acknowledged as being even remotely legitimate when you consider the history of the region and its people. Forms of government are absolutely irrelevant, decisions are made at parties or gatherings behind closed doors where the power elite might share a drink and talk directly and frankly concerning matters that are confronting their specific body of government. This is not in any text books (to my knowledge). But you will find many educated Muslims or people who are familiar personally with the region that will tell you this. I had a few such college professors teaching high level political science courses (some dealing with the Middle East exclusively) who spoke about such things with conviction that you could never duplicate.

Case in point, if we ever establish a truly stable Iraqi democracy, this structure will only be the result of one of multiple warring factions using such an establishment to gain the upper hand on the other side. Any perceived bilateral cooperation will be just that, a perception. It is the inevitable path of things presently, and it is necessary for our military withdrawal from the state, but I will absolutely guarantee you with 100% of certainty that such an establishment will fail very predictably. There is currently no desire anywhere in the region for democracy (Israel will be excluded from most of what I am talking about because they are more or less an artificially created state by Western governments and do not fit into any type of model of regional analysis), there is just no such desire to conduct government in that way. There is no historical basis for this which does not come directly from our own revolution for desiring such participatory government (or perhaps the French Revolution), which is so completely isolated from the region and its predominant cultural makeup that it is just staggering to consider what we are trying to do when all things are considered.

There is one exception, I forget whether it is Morocco or the United Arab Emirates, it has been too long since I have studied such things. But the ludicrous premise behind every policy we have made regarding the region needs careful and thorough reconsideration before we can move forward with logical policy and issue positions.

Anyway, there's story/rambling/ranting time with Eric for the evening.

[Pops Racer]

1. Read, study and interpret the Quran. That should be easy, it's taken devout Muslims over 700 yrs to do that, it should be easy for us. (tongue firmly implanted in cheek)

2. Build McDonalds and Walmarts every where.

You forgot to mention how the brothers in your example will also perform an Honor Killing and whack said sister.

Or how the Arab Christian community is treated. Like burned and bombed churches in Lebanon, and thousands of Christians routed from their homes. These religious rivals used to live in harmony before Munich Olympics. The problem is cultural, religious and economic. Very complicated.