Hank Jacobs Posted January 17, 2009 Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 I removed the upper hose and left the hose at the bottom of the intercooler attached which loops up to about 70% of the total height (or more) until it loops down again to the turbo charger (850 Glt 97) to ensure that there is no way for liquid to get into the turbo charger. I could not find other hoses and decided first to poor hot water in there with sope. The idea was to thaw the intercooler. After about 10s or so I could see water come out from the 2 mm in diameter drainage hole. I used about a galon of water and went slowly since I do not know what the capacy of the aircooler is since I do want to overfill..... The water to my disappointment was quite clean as it came out. So I thought I need a better solvent and went for gasoline again 1 galon since I did not have anything better. Perhaps something else might be even better. Anyway when it came out it clearly did dissolve oil deposits as it turned brown/black in color. Nothing too serious so. It was not super black suggesting that the intercooler was not super dirty to begin with. This is all a matter of perspective. Finally I removed the lower rubber hose to ensure that all the gas was removed form the system. Put it back in reverse that it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Jacobs Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Intake air on Volvo 850 GLT gets blocked when it gets below -10F. This is a know problem and Borton Volvo in Minneapolis suggest to park the car in a warm place. This is how they "repair" the problem when people get towed to Borton Volvo. Last week they got busy....Summary so far:-Replace collapsing hoses with silicon one but this did not remove the 100% obstruction.-Flushed the Intercooler, dilled out a second drainage hole, and placed in heated garage -> the car was running fine next morning giving the false impression that it was fixed. -100% Obstruction/Blockage came back in the evening after being parked outside at work at -20F-When obstucted, sticked two screwdrivers in between the shaft and the upper hose for air to get into the engine and drove home with 20 miles/per hour. I do not recommend this.... as the car did stall sometimes. Bigger hole or smaller does not make a big difference as things seem to be controlled by a computer to idle at low rpms.. - Next moring I started the car with the screw drivers in place to provide some air leaving it run for an hour with the hood closed checking every 5 minutes. I have done this in previous years and know it to work. The obstruction will disappear at one point. This is interesting thinking about this. It does not appear to be a linear process where the obstruction thaws away making room for more and more air. Instead it is highly non linear. The time interval from no air to full air is perhaps only a few minutes. Does this mean something to you? Any ideas? I still do not know for sure that the blockage is in the intercooler.-Cleaned Trottle box butterfly even so it did not cause the obstruction. Would not recommend. Blockage must be upsteam of any collapsing hose. -Checked for wet air/dirty airfilter since this is upstream. (good suggestion but no obstruction here)-Looked down the inside of the hose from the airfilter to the turbo charger and noticed that there was some oil deposit at the lower end of it close to the turbo charger. (nothing to totally block the flow).-Looked at the other side of the turbo charger (outside only) an noticed some oil outside the rubber hose (nothing out of the oridinary). I do not think that the turbo charger could block the flow since it is spinning. Any input here.ConclusionWhat does not work so do not waste time and money: I would not recommend to replace the hoses (there seemed to be some that like to sell them but this is not the problem), I also would not recommend to flush the aircooler=intercoller, nor clean the airfilter since none of this appears to really fix the problem. What works: Move to Florida or get a space heater and put it underneath. This cannot be the solution... we should not settle for Borton Volvo's fix. Any Ideas for a real solution????Open Question: Where is the obstruction? I still believe it is in the intercooler to cause the blockage. Is someone is reading this and has the same problem since the temps <-10F you should do consider the following test. I will not be able to do this myself unless it gets sufficiently cold again. If your upper hose collapses investigate the lower hose to check if it contracts as well. Perhaps you could partially remove it to see if the upper hose relaxes. If this is the case it would not be the intercooler.Any other suggestions are highly appreciated since Volvos suggestion to simply park the car in a heated place seems not feasible for many living up north. I thought it could get cold in sweden as well.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilhuly Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 It has to be blockage inside the intercooler creating the vacuum. I can't imagine that this happened when they were new or they would have recalled them. I'll bet if the intercooler could be flushed with a warm solvent under some modest pressure this condition could be cured. I'll bet hot simple green would do the trick. Something in there is pretty gluey normally and may be trapping moisture or maybe not, but when it gets really cold this stuff is really firming up r freezing. The condition that allows the moisture to get trapped up in there (probably in the upper part) is what needs to be alleviated. You could replace the intercooler or... You could use a coolant pan, a bilge pump, some fittings and hoses to rig a unit that will force the solvent through the intercooler under pressure through the intercooler and down a return line back into your coolant pan. You'll have to plug the weep holes.Either way, you can't have very good flow through that thing even thawed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Jacobs Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 It has to be blockage inside the intercooler creating the vacuum. I can't imagine that this happened when they were new or they would have recalled them. I'll bet if the intercooler could be flushed with a warm solvent under some modest pressure this condition could be cured. I'll bet hot simple green would do the trick. Something in there is pretty gluey normally and may be trapping moisture or maybe not, but when it gets really cold this stuff is really firming up r freezing. The condition that allows the moisture to get trapped up in there (probably in the upper part) is what needs to be alleviated. You could replace the intercooler or... You could use a coolant pan, a bilge pump, some fittings and hoses to rig a unit that will force the solvent through the intercooler under pressure through the intercooler and down a return line back into your coolant pan. You'll have to plug the weep holes.Either way, you can't have very good flow through that thing even thawed.Ok.. So you think that the intercooler remains the problem. I should flush this thing once more and this time cycling fluid through it. What fluid would work best? Soapy water that was left in there standing for some time did not do the trick (I used a gallon with some modest amounts of seventh generation detergent) but again it was standing in there and not much gue came out using this method. Thanks for the tip.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Shadow Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 It has to be blockage inside the intercooler creating the vacuum. I can't imagine that this happened when they were new or they would have recalled them. I'll bet if the intercooler could be flushed with a warm solvent under some modest pressure this condition could be cured. I'll bet hot simple green would do the trick. Something in there is pretty gluey normally and may be trapping moisture or maybe not, but when it gets really cold this stuff is really firming up r freezing. The condition that allows the moisture to get trapped up in there (probably in the upper part) is what needs to be alleviated. You could replace the intercooler or... You could use a coolant pan, a bilge pump, some fittings and hoses to rig a unit that will force the solvent through the intercooler under pressure through the intercooler and down a return line back into your coolant pan. You'll have to plug the weep holes.Either way, you can't have very good flow through that thing even thawed.i second that thought the flow must suck when its thawed.i think there maybe moisture from the water freezing up inside. i would pull the intercooler off the car. in none of your posts did you say you actually pulled the intercooler off the car. only way i can think to solve your problem is remove the cooler and check that for flow. also you can bypass the cooler and connect the two ends together.also could be a bad turbo not flowing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali Posted January 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 The volvo parts guy at Erin Mills Volvo, in Mississauga, Canada told me straight up that I should not buy the hoses. He also said that that the blockage is mostproably moisture and oil in the intercooler freezing up and clogging the air flow. His solution was to let the car warm up until the radiator thaws the intercooler in turn unclogging the frozen moisture/oil.What he said worked! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilhuly Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Simple green might work, but if you get a couple gallons of a mineral spirit solvent like paint thinner or similar would probably be the most foolproof.Ok.. So you think that the intercooler remains the problem. I should flush this thing once more and this time cycling fluid through it. What fluid would work best? Soapy water that was left in there standing for some time did not do the trick (I used a gallon with some modest amounts of seventh generation detergent) but again it was standing in there and not much gue came out using this method. Thanks for the tip.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Jacobs Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 Simple green might work, but if you get a couple gallons of a mineral spirit solvent like paint thinner or similar would probably be the most foolproof.I followed Gilhuly's advice and did a second flush today to be 100% certain that the intercooler is clean. Build custom fitting using PVC pipe/pluming adapters using the old rubber intake hose which was soft enough to expand over it. Used a drill pump and cycled hot purple industry degresser (from homedepot) through the system pushing it in at the bottom of the intercooler for the solvent to come out at the top catching it in my wifes pan. I diluted it for it to be a 50/50% mix which is still highly concentrated. 1.5 gal of the mix. was enought to fill up the intercooler completely. 2 Gal was enough to have a sufficient ammount in the overflow container to be able to cycle the liquid through the system. Judging by the color change there was still a sufficient ammount of gunk in the system that was not removed using the first flush explained earlier in this post. This purple cleaner dissolves grease like crazy and I am very confident that the intercooler is perfectly clean know after the second round of cleaning. This time I was more impressed by the color change. Towards the end I used some gasoline and finally hot water and it looked clean when it came out. I am a bit encouraged sind I felt that there was some level of resistance to get the purple cleaner through the system that dissappeared over time. The hose kepped slipping off in the beginning. I like to believe that there was a lot of gunk in the system that I dissolved away. Only time will tell. It is no longer -10F in Minnestota and I cannot judge if this did indeed fix the problem for good or not. The car always runs fine when it is above -10F.If it get cold again I will post what the outcome was... Thanks to everyone for the advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
--Aaron-- Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 Very nice work and detailed description of what you did in attempt to remedy the issue. Good luck to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Shadow Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 nice, this what i was talking about when i meant did you take the SOB off and clean it! now that's cleaning. i hope this helps your problem. please report back when the temps hit below your reference temp. inquiring minds would like to know. if your topic is closed , just message a moderator and have them reopen it for you.nice work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Jacobs Posted January 20, 2009 Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 nice, this what i was talking about when i meant did you take the SOB off and clean it! now that's cleaning. i hope this helps your problem. please report back when the temps hit below your reference temp. inquiring minds would like to know. if your topic is closed , just message a moderator and have them reopen it for you.nice work!So here it goes again. It is hard to believe but this morning the intercooler was frozen up again. I know for sure that it is the intercooler since I removed the bottom hose and the top hose and was not able to blow air through the intercooler. It was fully fully shut. Placed space heater underneath to thaw the system and tested again this evening finding that it was fully open without feeling any resistance. I should have done this test a long time ago since it is fool proof. I am done with this annoying problem since it is not an option to put a heater in the garage... Unfortunate Conclusion: The cleaning did not fix the problem so I cannot recommend it. I wish it would be different.Bypass Solution: I bypassed the intercooler alltogether. It took a 2inch in diameter PVC plumming pipe about 4 inch long to extend the hose that comes from the turbo charger to connect it with the intake manifold. Connections were made using two rubber gaskets as illustrated in the attached figure. The car runs great. Question 1: Will this dramatically reduce the life of the engine if I were to leave it as is? Question 2: What could be the problem with the intercooler or other engine parts to cause this. I am quite confident that the grease was gone and that it was clean from the inside. I do not think that I got gumed up in one run. Yet I know it freezed up over night which was confirmed using the simple test of trying to blow air through it after disconnecting both hoses. Someone has ideas here? Where would the water come from and how much does it take for the feezing condensates to clog the intercooler? Question 3: Are others experience the same problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEN8US D Posted January 20, 2009 Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 Are you ensuring that the intercooler is completely dry after running the water-based, and freezable, solution through it? Perhaps you're leaving residual liquid in the intercooler and that's what's freezing up, since this is all happening in an unheated garage.Might pull the intercooler and bring it inside to dry overnight... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Shadow Posted January 20, 2009 Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 also using the same jig with the solvent. maybe you can used compressed air to dry it out. use a hairdryer and blow air inside it to dry it out.water may have frozen inside it. sad to say but the intercooler may have to come out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james1997 Posted January 20, 2009 Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 I have read other forums on this site talking about PVC valves and the crankcase breather system allowing moisture from the crank case into the intake system and freezing in the intercooler. I bought an new system from the fcp groton. I will post results later this week.http://www.fcpgroton.com/product-exec/prod.../category_id/64 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james1997 Posted January 20, 2009 Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 PCV valve not the plastic, sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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