Encore

[Che'_Moderator]

2008 debrief and end of year wrap up

2008 was an unremarkable year for Volvospeed as a site. Deploying a new server was considered by some to be the highlight. The fact this event was unknown to many speaks volumes for the overall level excitement level for the year. Social-economic issues also helped play a role in the dampening of spirits in 2008. The situation lead to difficulties for some and opportunities for others. These may be mitigating factors for some of the issues, I did see surface for the site. As a whole I would say 2008 was the first time in ten years I have been disappointed with the site and its members. What lead to this communication breakdown? I see several problems.

The Brand: Volvo Cars itself had what I would define as a boring year. Its traditional innovation was replaced with what I would best describe as GM/Fordesq marketing. Backward steps in performance and reliability, wrapped in out dated technology and packaged at a premium price. The large number of dissatisfied new owners on the site support this observation. This corporate trend acted synthetically with the already negative feelings towards Volvo from both within and out side of the site. Its hard to have a ground swelling of after market support when the parent company seems to be trying everything in its power to further dilute it self in both the performance and luxury market.

The Site: Members as a whole were the same as they ever were. Divided into social groups that polarized the entire site. What was a recent trend is the new "I know better than the entire site" battle cry of some of the new members. Innovation and creativity are the stock of unique thoughts and originality. Re-evaluating old data and obstinance apparently at some point became one in the same. If Volvospeed is going to continue to grow, or continue at all, this has to stop. Another subject I want to broach was recently pointed out by a moderator. They can name themselves if they want, but I will not. They asked the question,"why do members link to information on other sites that we have here?" I cannot answer that, but it has been asked before. From the outside it seems several people may need to evaluate why they are here. If you do not like the site, please do not force yourself to put up with it.

Vendors: As a whole the vendor group has seen the most loss of my respect. Poor ethics and lack of courtesy will not be tolerate from vendors. Its no secret I have asked a few vendors not to post commercial posts here anymore. To those of you who are personal friends with these people I am sorry if you take it as a personal slight. Its not personal its business. The needs of the many out weight the needs of the few. Vendors will not be allowed to pray on unsuspecting new members. On a lighter note IPD, a traditionally slow to change direction company, surprised us several times in 2008. Heavier sway bars, new springs, and new rims all stick out in my mind. Was refreshing to see them reach out directly to the community to see what they wanted. A pure love for the hobby, not a thinly veiled marketing ploy was a refreshing change from what we saw from some of the other vendors.

Wrap Up: So where does all of this leave us? The correct question is where does this all leave you. Take a step back as ask if you enjoy your time here. If not can you fix it? If you cannot why are you still here? Its time we all started representing both ourselves and the site in more positive manor. Volvospeed, the internet, and us as a race need to grow beyond the "its just the internet" attitude. If you cannot get along with people who share the same hobby as us, what does that really say?

I remember the first day the message board hit 10 posts back in 1999. We had 6 members on, and 3 of them posted a total of 10 posts. Message boards were new then and most still favored the old usegroups. A lot has changed since then and I would say most for the better. But this recent swing in attitude concerns me. While VS membership and traffic is on the rise, there is an underlying issue here. If I am going to step into the shadows and sell the site I would rather do it on a high note, not watch it go to pieces after eleven years. So I expect you to read this and make any profound change? Of course not. But maybe out of all of you, one of you reads this, and sees the problem. Maybe one of you is the next moderator who really makes people enjoy the site and feel welcome. We have had them. Rich, Kevin, Alex, Eric, Dave, and the countless other moderators who spend their time to make your lives easier.

/em drops the mic and bows

[Oreo931]

Well said.

I am a member of several car forums, and I think VS has the best community of enthusiasts out of all of them. Being comfortable having a meet at my own house and not having to worry about people acting like idiots says a lot. Outside of a couple douchey new members and the occasional e-fighting, VS is a great place to be. Hopefully it will grow just as much in the next ten years as it did in the past 10.

Cheers, Chuck. You took a "bet", and turned it into an e-home for many people. Thanks for all of your hard work, and thanks to all of the people who support this site.

[JCviggen]

Nice post, actually most of the "issues" we have here, are just as present if not more on other (non volvo) forums these days. In fact I would say things are still quite all right aside from Volvo as a brand going down the gutter quickly.

Then again maybe the RWD turbobricks guys felt the same 10 years ago :lol:

[flyfishing3]

Divided into social groups that polarized the entire site.

this statement perplexes me. life is broken down into social groups. you befriend somebody because of a shared passion for sports, CARS, fetishes, work, etc. but even inside your group of friends you'll have a best friend. I'm just confused regarding the ""polarizing"" comment.

either I'm oblivious to this or maybe I'm part of the problem, but i don't see this.

if I'm going to try and help somebody, i don't care if they live in Texas, or are buddies with XXXX.

i know I've made jokes about the NWC but thats for laughs and giggles.

the rest i find reflective and thought out.

[Chilled man]

ugh I dispise this place with a passion as you can tell

On to next year and more fun and shinagins

I plan on taking the number one spot form Kevin also ;)

[wmartinlsmith]

there is an underlying issue here. If I am going to step into the shadows and sell the site I would rather do it on a high note, not watch it go to pieces after eleven years.

can i ask for a deeper explanation of this note?

would you actually consider leaving us smack dab on the downward side of your project car? has that been a lie this entire time.

do we all not enjoy the jabs at companys making piss poor products and being outed publicly??

cant we all just enjoy busting balls over a hot cup of coffee and a hood of a volvo?

[Fudge_Brownie]

The Site: Members as a whole were the same as they ever were. Divided into social groups that polarized the entire site. What was a recent trend is the new "I know better than the entire site" battle cry of some of the new members. Innovation and creativity are the stock of unique thoughts and originality. Re-evaluating old data and obstinance apparently at some point became one in the same. If Volvospeed is going to continue to grow, or continue at all, this has to stop. Another subject I want to broach was recently pointed out by a moderator. They can name themselves if they want, but I will not. They asked the question,"why do members link to information on other sites that we have here?" I cannot answer that, but it has been asked before. From the outside it seems several people may need to evaluate why they are here. If you do not like the site, please do not force yourself to put up with it.

Ways to improve the site: Iron Monkey needs to post some more.

I've said it to ya before, you're shovelling shit against the tide. And you know it AOL and The Internet for Dummies put every retard under the sun on the internet. Like all big life changing technologies, its something that we as a society have to adopt and learn to work with. Unfortunately, since they won't legalize the killing of the stupid, there's plenty of them unwilling to reason. So far so good, keep it up.

Well said.

I am a member of several car forums, and I think VS has the best community of enthusiasts out of all of them. Being comfortable having a meet at my own house and not having to worry about people acting like idiots says a lot. Outside of a couple douchey new members and the occasional e-fighting, VS is a great place to be. Hopefully it will grow just as much in the next ten years as it did in the past 10.

Cheers, Chuck. You took a "bet", and turned it into an e-home for many people. Thanks for all of your hard work, and thanks to all of the people who support this site.

Ironic "+1". You've done a great job on establishing a strong 'personal' forum for everyone and a place that really breaks down the hole "I can do and say whatever I want, its the internet" kinda shit. Yet at the same time, no tyrannical moderations. And if you disagree, I'll suspend you.

[Chilled man]

I think I add to the site and make people enjoy it as a whole .

but make me a moderator ...... that would not be a good idea.

Since I do view it as "its just the internet"

same way I vew SL "its just a game"

and to get me to take either serious .... yeah no

But ask anyone I am always willing to help B)

[CoRalV70]

I must say that this place has pretty much become my life... sure some of the stuff I may post is asinine(i.e.: RAREST COLOR VOLVO EVAR) But, its all in good fun, I try to help out anyway I can, and try to have fun with stuff, thanks Chuck and everyone here who is a trying to make everything so much better, and with that hopefully many years to come!

[--Aaron--]

Personally at least a handfull of times per log on I laugh and enjoy the humerous and somewhat ball busting things posted , learn a few things and generally feel proud to be a member here and I'll gladly continue to support the site.

One thing I'm not very impressed with is it seems select people only help who they wanna help.

Examples...

If a member joins or a current one speaks without using propper grammar or maybe less than perfect punctuation, they're told basically to grab an english book and try again. Everyone is different that's the beauty of individual minds, backgrounds, etc. and I don't think anyone should have to be at a lack of advice or support because of something stupid like the format of their post/thought to word process.....unless they truly ask for it by being inappropriate or continually not accepting help that's offered. That's pretty silly IMO.

Also I've noticed that if someone reaches out for advice and isn't "down" with a popular "group" they get under minded and continue to frustrate themselves trying things that don't work. I think it's evident the more experienced guys have a better understanding of things and often depending upon the poster keep quiet and allow the thread to be filled with statements that are followed by a question mark and/or an "I think" or something along those lines instead of offering their knowledge for discussion. This IMO is pretty pathetic.

I surely don't know everything and get stumped here and there and on occasion I'm one of those people categorized in my second observation. Does it bother me, sure, I think it would bother anyone that is willing to help anyone with anything they can. Does it confuse me, certainly, I feel I'm a pretty personable, friendly person and as stated I will help anyone when I can regardless of grammar/punctuation skills or regardless of anything really. Do I keep coming back?....without a doubt and I still have a good time and continue to learn when I'm logged on.

ps....hug, i can haz wun LOL

These are just a few things I'd like to contribute for reading and thought purposes. All opinions of course expect for the personal view stated directly above in the 3rd paragraph.

[khax]

i love VS :D

[Oreo931]

One thing I'm not very impressed with is it seems select people only help who they wanna help.

Examples...

If a member joins or a current one speaks without using propper grammar or maybe less than perfect punctuation, they're told basically to grab an english book and try again. Everyone is different that's the beauty of individual minds, backgrounds, etc. and I don't think anyone should have to be at a lack of advice or support because of something stupid like the format of their post/thought to word process.....unless they truly ask for it by being inappropriate or continually not accepting help that's offered. That's pretty silly IMO.

Also I've noticed that if someone reaches out for advice and isn't "down" with a popular "group" they get under minded and continue to frustrate themselves trying things that don't work. I think it's evident the more experienced guys have a better understanding of things and often depending upon the poster keep quiet and allow the thread to be filled with statements that are followed by a question mark and/or an "I think" or something along those lines instead of offering their knowledge for discussion. This IMO is pretty pathetic.

I surely don't know everything and get stumped here and there and on occasion I'm one of those people categorized in my second observation. Does it bother me, sure, I think it would bother anyone that is willing to help anyone with anything they can. Does it confuse me, certainly, I feel I'm a pretty personable, friendly person and as stated I will help anyone when I can regardless of grammar/punctuation skills or regardless of anything really. Do I keep coming back?....without a doubt and I still have a good time when I'm logged on.

In response to your first example... ifpeopletype laik this n dontuse spacies and punctaton and gud spellings itsdificulttoread and undirstand them.

Obviously that sentence was an exaggeration, but if you're knowledgeable enough to use a computer, you should be able to put together a coherent sentence. If someone wants help but doesn't care enough to make their post readable or understandable, then others aren't going to care enough to take the time to respond. In 90% of the cases I've seen on here, the poorly written questions are done out of laziness, not lack of education. If the poster actually makes an effort to ask a coherent question, then people will make an effort to respond.

In response to your second example... I'm not really sure what you are talking about here. Most of the really knowledgeable people on here are very busy. For example, Chuck, Greg, Eric, Danny, Dave (not the racist one), etc have full time jobs, families...priorities... They aren't able to spend countless hours sitting in the maintenance forum answering questions. When I need help I relentlessly harass Chuck until he answers me ... I'm not saying you should do that, but just providing a possible explanation. Maybe you could give a more specific example?

[Fudge_Brownie]

In response to your first example... ifpeopletype laik this n dontuse spacies and punctaton and gud spellings itsdificulttoread and undirstand them.

Obviously that sentence was an exaggeration, but if you're knowledgeable enough to use a computer, you should be able to put together a coherent sentence. If someone wants help but doesn't care enough to make their post readable or understandable, then others aren't going to care enough to take the time to respond. In 90% of the cases I've seen on here, the poorly written questions are done out of laziness, not lack of education. If the poster actually makes an effort to ask a coherent question, then people will make an effort to respond.

In response to your second example... I'm not really sure what you are talking about here. Most of the really knowledgeable people on here are very busy. For example, Chuck, Greg, Eric, Danny, Dave (not the racist one), etc have full time jobs, families...priorities... They aren't able to spend countless hours sitting in the maintenance forum answering questions. When I need help I relentlessly harass Chuck until he answers me ... I'm not saying you should do that, but just providing a possible explanation. Maybe you could give a more specific example?

Absolutely agreed. I've seen some people come on here, formulate a great question, after mentioning they searched for the answer. They write properly, and give us all the details needed and they are helped, new or not. And I've also seen people come in here and ask, while providing no details, a popular question and it's poorly written to boot. Clean up your act, or GTFO The list of people here who extend their help in spite of jobs, familys etc I'm sure aren't willing to help those who can't even be bothered to write a paragraph with the caps lock key turned off.

Oh, and don't forget Alvin!

[--Aaron--]

In response to your first example... ifpeopletype laik this n dontuse spacies and punctaton and gud spellings itsdificulttoread and undirstand them.

Obviously that sentence was an exaggeration, but if you're knowledgeable enough to use a computer, you should be able to put together a coherent sentence. If someone wants help but doesn't care enough to make their post readable or understandable, then others aren't going to care enough to take the time to respond. In 90% of the cases I've seen on here, the poorly written questions are done out of laziness, not lack of education. If the poster actually makes an effort to ask a coherent question, then people will make an effort to respond.

In response to your second example... I'm not really sure what you are talking about here. Most of the really knowledgeable people on here are very busy. For example, Chuck, Greg, Eric, Danny, Dave (not the racist one), etc have full time jobs, families...priorities... They aren't able to spend countless hours sitting in the maintenance forum answering questions. When I need help I relentlessly harass Chuck until he answers me ... I'm not saying you should do that, but just providing a possible explanation. Maybe you could give a more specific example?

In reply to the first.....I completely agree, if you go somewhere and are seeking help, in order for help to be given the problem has to be clearly stated otherwise it will take way too much thought and lead to so much confusion trying to peice together someone's problem without the correct details.

And to the second.....This is not to be taken offensively or anything but when a problem arises for me I usually take a few stabs at diagnosing....sometimes it works out and I get a great feeling of accomplishment and understanding, other times it does not and I will search around here for a bit and seek advice here as a last resort. Justin's one of the few local guys within driving distance always willing to help that I talk to so yeah, Justin to me is like Chuck to you, but he's a hell of a sport about it and I appreciate the time and advice spent on me as I'm sure you do as well.

As for examples, reading your well said second reply and after re reading my post I think the second (most of us) is a result of the first (poorly asked questions) so foot in my mouf there....so we'll just forget the direction of fail I was traveling in there.

And also, I can surely understand that constantly seeing the same simple question after the same simple question can get old and I can imagine it bothers the senior members, hell I've only been here 11 months or so and sometimes it's like beating a dead horse. I think in order to receive help an attempt to help yourself should be present. i.e. searching There hasn't been more than one or two smaller things I was wondering about that I was not able to find via the search box.

[TM850R]

I don't see VS as divided all that much. Yes there are some people on here that do not agree with each other and like to bicker back and forth but that's going to happen anywhere you go (not just limited to forums). We all know that we don't see eye to eye on everything. The past year was tough for everyone. A lot of people were on edge and sometimes a little steam would be released on here. The biggest problem on here is that people cant take a joke when it comes their way. We all know Adam can (Justin's nuts being one of them) but not everyone is like that.

I see what you are saying Chuck when you are talking about how the forum is not as proactive as it has been in the past with new modification and write-ups. I have seen a steady decline in member involvement in sharing new ideas and work that they have done. This may be due to the economy or just a lack of enthusiastic members, who really knows. There are helpful people here but there just isn't a commitment to stand out anymore as well as be a helpful part of the community.

This could be all wrong, I don't spend much time here anymore. Personally, I don't have as much time anymore to spend here but I do try to get on once in a while to see whats going on. There doesn't seem to be any vendor involvement in raffles or giveaways (something that was mentioned during the start-up of the memberships). I know many of the vendors are active on the forums and that is great to see they care enough about their base customers to be an active part of their community (even IPD) who seemed to ignore the needs and desires of the community for a little while there. They have come back and brought us some new products.

Personally, I usually enjoy my time here. It hasn't been so easy lately (just graduated from college, looking for a job while working 60 hours a week). I know Central and South Florida has some great members that enjoy being together as a group and working on their cars. That's what I enjoy most about being a member. We have a great variety of cars here and I'm sure its that way in the other groups of members. I think more contributing members to the knowledge base would help this community out a lot. There has to be motivation for knowledgeable members to contribute though.

/my 3 cents