maciekb2002 Posted October 2, 2009 Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 Well, many thanks to Maciek, who drove all the way from LI to bring me a set of 625cc's to try! Rough issue gone - but still very rich @ idle, and in our little run, I had AFR's up to 14.4 in 3rd pull & some missfire So, we'll see how the AFR's settle tomorrow, and I have to maybe swap back the Volvo plugs & wires again it will be all good , it will be all good , I had so much fun going back , home I wooped 2 M3 on my way home Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricF Posted October 2, 2009 Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 Well, many thanks to Maciek, who drove all the way from LI to bring me a set of 625cc's to try! Rough issue gone - but still very rich @ idle, and in our little run, I had AFR's up to 14.4 in 3rd pull & some missfire So, we'll see how the AFR's settle tomorrow, and I have to maybe swap back the Volvo plugs & wires again Misfires can very well cause the lean readings though, on the bright side. So as long as it was spiking lean while misfiring, the AFRs may well settle once you resolve the misfires. Then you'd be in business again :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted October 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 Misfires can very well cause the lean readings though, on the bright side. So as long as it was spiking lean while misfiring, the AFRs may well settle once you resolve the misfires. Then you'd be in business again Well, it doesn't look good. The more I drive it with the 625's the worse it gets (at idle/part throttle). This morning was OK first thing, but I went out just now, and the AFR's are starting 14.7, dropping to 11.6-9, then pegging lean. If I blip the throttle, I can get it to come back to the rich side, but it seems that it's just so rich. I sent the injectors out today for flow testing, but chances are that they are actually fine. I'll stop @ Volvo again this afternoon to hook up the tester, but I'm sure I'm gonna see the 02 pegged. I'll try & note the injector pulse time. I can try changing plugs, etc.. but it really seems that it is the tune. , Since with the greens flowing approx 535cc @5bar, it runs & drives great, I just can't run over 20psi boost, and I'm concerned about running that much pressure to the rail ('98's only have regulated pressure to the rail, the regulator is down by the PS rack....) Not sure what to do now. TT should be here soon, so I may have to wait for that to see if I can get things right @ idle w/the 625 @ 3bar, then I'll know that it is in fact the tune calibration If I hadn't exploded the clutch in the X1/9, I'd just leave this be, but I need it as my DD right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owned Posted October 2, 2009 Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 What cars had those pans? I need to drop my pan anyways so this looks like a nice addition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stick70 Posted October 2, 2009 Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 Well, it doesn't look good. The more I drive it with the 625's the worse it gets (at idle/part throttle). This morning was OK first thing, but I went out just now, and the AFR's are starting 14.7, dropping to 11.6-9, then pegging lean. If I blip the throttle, I can get it to come back to the rich side, but it seems that it's just so rich. I sent the injectors out today for flow testing, but chances are that they are actually fine. I'll stop @ Volvo again this afternoon to hook up the tester, but I'm sure I'm gonna see the 02 pegged. I'll try & note the injector pulse time. I can try changing plugs, etc.. but it really seems that it is the tune. , Since with the greens flowing approx 535cc @5bar, it runs & drives great, I just can't run over 20psi boost, and I'm concerned about running that much pressure to the rail ('98's only have regulated pressure to the rail, the regulator is down by the PS rack....) Not sure what to do now. TT should be here soon, so I may have to wait for that to see if I can get things right @ idle w/the 625 @ 3bar, then I'll know that it is in fact the tune calibration If I hadn't exploded the clutch in the X1/9, I'd just leave this be, but I need it as my DD right now. are you getting any codes? that sounds alot like my car is doing on stock tune... owned, the oil cooler/pan should be on any car later than 99-00. Vadis lists different coolant pipes though for the different models/years, im not sure which one lookforjoe used but i got all my stuff off of an 05 xc90 and the last one i built i ordered the pipes new, they arent too expensive, and its hard to find a yard that will pull just that pipe for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricF Posted October 2, 2009 Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 Since it runs with the greens at 535cc/min, I would still kind of suspect the injectors. I have heard a lot of issues with Dekas. Sending them to be flowed is an alright plan, you can at least verify what they are flowing at. You may want to send the greens as well while you're at it so you can absolutely see where they are at. Then you can say with certainty that the greens at 5 bar flow "xxx cc/min" and then calculate where to put the Dekas to match that rate. If they are flowing the same effective rate but one runs right and one doesn't, it has to be an injector issue. Have you tested resistance across the injector pins on both sets of injectors? Something does not add up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted October 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 Since it runs with the greens at 535cc/min, I would still kind of suspect the injectors. I have heard a lot of issues with Dekas. Sending them to be flowed is an alright plan, you can at least verify what they are flowing at. You may want to send the greens as well while you're at it so you can absolutely see where they are at. Then you can say with certainty that the greens at 5 bar flow "xxx cc/min" and then calculate where to put the Dekas to match that rate. If they are flowing the same effective rate but one runs right and one doesn't, it has to be an injector issue. Have you tested resistance across the injector pins on both sets of injectors? Something does not add up. Tried two sets of 625's same issue, has to be the calibration of the tune. It just doesn't like the flow rate. resistance is identical to Volvo Greens 12.2ohms. The company will flow test the injectors I sent back, and give me flow rates at 2.5, 3, 3.5 & 4 bar. I can then give this info to Jan, & see what's up. I think I may look for some 50-55lb injectors to try... any ideas? I don't want to maintain 5bar to the rail, it just doesn't seem healthy.... I'm assuming my TT will be here before too long, hopefully next week or two - then I can try calibrating the 625's borrowed from Maciek & see how that goes.. at once I have TT I can send the RECU back to Jan, which looks like the next necessary step. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted October 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 Still in wait mode... ... 625cc's out for flow testing... In the mean time, I just ordered a set of these.... Bosch Red Top EV1 Gen III 50lb Injecotrs I can run them @ 3 or 4bar, and see if that resolves my over-rich AFR's 53.5lb/hr, 560cc/min at 50psi (3-1/2 bar) 57.7lbs/hr, 605cc/min at 58psi (4 bar) 61.2lbs/hr, 640cc/min at 62psi (4-1/2 bar) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bondo Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 Replied on your t-bricks thread- I'm running those currently. I am off to the dyno, I'll let you know what HP 6 of them max out at shortly. LOL! Still in wait mode... ... 625cc's out for flow testing... In the mean time, I just ordered a set of these.... Bosch Red Top EV1 Gen III 50lb Injecotrs I can run them @ 3 or 4bar, and see if that resolves my over-rich AFR's 53.5lb/hr, 560cc/min at 50psi (3-1/2 bar) 57.7lbs/hr, 605cc/min at 58psi (4 bar) 61.2lbs/hr, 640cc/min at 62psi (4-1/2 bar) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted October 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Replied on your t-bricks thread- I'm running those currently. I am off to the dyno, I'll let you know what HP 6 of them max out at shortly. LOL! Thanks for the post, I appreciate the heads up on the rail. EDIT: checked the listing, these 0280156013-500 injectors are 3" - what's the Bosch # on yours? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bondo Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Sound slike you're good! Mine are 0 0280 156 028 6 of them max out at ~520bhp btw. Hehehehehe.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted October 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Sound slike you're good! Mine are 0 0280 156 028 6 of them max out at ~520bhp btw. Hehehehehe.... That's your actual output(!) ? Or is that extrapolated? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bondo Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Actual output. I wonder what the injector opening time of the dekas is vs. the bosch? 2 different sets of injectors can have the same static flowrate and behave rather differently dynamically. Probably not the issue, but it should be taken into consideration as the injectors get larger and pulsewidths under low load drop. It'd be nice to know what the actual pulsewidth/duty cycle is. IMO globally changing injector size or fuel pressure when the lean issue is not global, but limited to a certain part of the map, is going to make the car run rich everywhere else. I realize you probably know that, and that this tune "adjustment" was supposed to correct just that, but the symptoms do seem to suggest the scenario I am describing. Hope you get TT soon, you must be getting tired of this bs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ipd Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 I'm thinking he means extrapolated bhp as the test was done on a chassis dyno rather than an engine dyno. Unless I'm missing something... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted October 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 Actual output. I wonder what the injector opening time of the dekas is vs. the bosch? 2 different sets of injectors can have the same static flowrate and behave rather differently dynamically. Probably not the issue, but it should be taken into consideration as the injectors get larger and pulsewidths under low load drop. It'd be nice to know what the actual pulsewidth/duty cycle is. IMO globally changing injector size or fuel pressure when the lean issue is not global, but limited to a certain part of the map, is going to make the car run rich everywhere else. I realize you probably know that, and that this tune "adjustment" was supposed to correct just that, but the symptoms do seem to suggest the scenario I am describing. Hope you get TT soon, you must be getting tired of this bs. I don't have any spec on the Bosch injectors, I'll have to ask Five-O. The Siemens specs are listed on my seller's listing: Gain: 0.11ms/mg Offset: 0.055ms Turn on time @ 14VDC: 1.14ms Turn off time: 0.85ms @ 600KPa Factory Tolerance: +/-6 % Spray Pattern: Cone (4-Hole) The car was running rich across the board with the 625's - too lean with the 468's, even @ 5bar. I hoping that the 50lbs @ 4bar (605cc) will fit the bill, until I get the tune recalibrated for the actual flow rates of the siemens. And yes, I'll be very happy once I get TT and can make adjustments dynamically. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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