flaco Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 I will once again suggest increasing the octane level of your fuel to see if it increases your timing or leans out your mixture The ECU's response to a detected knock event is to first try to lower the boost level, then richen the mixture, then pull timing. If it's a false alarm, there could be issues with the knock sensors, torque specs, or some specific background noise that is triggering them. Are you sure about that? I havent seen a motronic paper or info about this, but I know on the prev versions (ie lh2.2 /EZxxxk) the ecu would first retard timing (up to 22degress in some cases!), THEN lower boost IF knock was still present. It didn't have fuel enrichment features, altho I can see it easily added to the ecu code. Time for more gauges, My link Or you could just hook up the stock knock sensors to the car stereo... It works GREAT, best $5 ever spent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricF Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 Are you sure about that? I havent seen a motronic paper or info about this, but I know on the prev versions (ie lh2.2 /EZxxxk) the ecu would first retard timing (up to 22degress in some cases!), THEN lower boost IF knock was still present. It didn't have fuel enrichment features, altho I can see it easily added to the ecu code. Straight from the horse's mouth... Volvo blue book on Motronic 4.3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boost3237 Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 what about changing the fuel load % not the table values or would that not help the areas that are rich as all hell?. Looking over the maps they seem in good order and as I currently understand things I couldn't recommend anything else Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted February 2, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 I will once again suggest increasing the octane level of your fuel to see if it increases your timing or leans out your mixture The ECU's response to a detected knock event is to first try to lower the boost level, then richen the mixture, then pull timing. If it's a false alarm, there could be issues with the knock sensors, torque specs, or some specific background noise that is triggering them. I tried running 100 octane, it made no difference to those areas of the map. Even with the Woth tune, timing was pulled @ 100% load, part throttle conditions. If I just row/wind it up through the gears, it doesn't show up so much, but I don't always drive like that! I'm probably exaggerating it in the maps by holding the throttle at that point longer than I normally would, but I'd like to pin down the load point at issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bondo Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 Does it crap its pants if you unplug the knock sensors or can TT bypass that? Would be nice to tyr it with no knock input. Retard the whole map 10 degrees to be safe and then go from there with no knock sensors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricF Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 Does it crap its pants if you unplug the knock sensors or can TT bypass that? Would be nice to tyr it with no knock input. Retard the whole map 10 degrees to be safe and then go from there with no knock sensors. Could just leave them plugged in and unbolted from the block (put a rag around them or something ) I would definitely first try this at lower boost levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzimark Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 Or try simply re-torquing the bolts that hold the knock sensors in. That might be a tight squeeze with the manifold on though :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bondo Posted February 3, 2010 Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 Could just leave them plugged in and unbolted from the block (put a rag around them or something ) I would definitely first try this at lower boost levels. Yeah leaving them plugged in and unbolted would be a nice thing to try. I mentioned pulling a bunch of timing form the map, but yeah as you say in addityion to that I would definitely turn the boost down too. If the knock sensors are messing with the timing and AFR who knows what the tune will be like once you take them out of the loop. I think that is an excellent idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted February 3, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 Does it crap its pants if you unplug the knock sensors or can TT bypass that? Would be nice to tyr it with no knock input. Retard the whole map 10 degrees to be safe and then go from there with no knock sensors. I could unplug the knock sensor "Y" harness at the subframe... but I don't feel like taking that risk. Or try simply re-torquing the bolts that hold the knock sensors in. That might be a tight squeeze with the manifold on though Can't reach the forward sensor with the intake on. Anyway, they were properly torqued when the engine was built about 15K ago. Could just leave them plugged in and unbolted from the block (put a rag around them or something ) I would definitely first try this at lower boost levels. Again, no way to readily access the sensors without pulling the intake. Not happening for the sake of shits & giggles. Since the timing values seem appropriate in all over areas, why would the knock sensors themselves be in question? The problem is pretty specific - starting around 4k, part-to half throttle & full load. Doesn't matter specifically what the boost pressure is, either. EDIT: If it were the knock sensors, I would have seen the exact same condition with the Woth tune, if not more so, since that one is leaner to start & runs more requested timing, no?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flatovercrest Posted February 3, 2010 Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 Tip: click inside this box to load the editor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flatovercrest Posted February 3, 2010 Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 Tip: click inside this box to load the editor POST FAIL! I typed up a less aggressive timing map based on the last Ign map you posted and your recent data logs. I don't know how to make it larger. I'm so computer illiterate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricF Posted February 3, 2010 Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 EDIT: If it were the knock sensors, I would have seen the exact same condition with the Woth tune, if not more so, since that one is leaner to start & runs more requested timing, no?. You are assuming then that the knock sensors are picking up actual knock events. I am suggesting that they may be picking up artifacts of some other noise in the engine or accessories that occurs at that level. Or that they may have some sensitivity issue or another. Since it's only at that point, it really might not be the knock sensors at all.. Given that you tried it with higher octane fuel and it didn't change (plus your timing levels when the AFRs and timing start to drop a little) I would guess that it isn't genuine knock events. Nevertheless, you are saying that nothing mirrored this with the Woth setup and similar conditions? That is something to work with, and there is probably something you can get adjusted in your turbo tuner I bet. Did you pay to have the Woth tune turned into a turbo tuner map file? I might try reverting to that map and seeing if your datalogs show any similar such behavior (unless you've already done this). Then, backtrack what you have changed, and see if you can isolate what changes are triggering this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bondo Posted February 3, 2010 Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 I bet this has been asked before -but can you log knock events? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbotuner Posted February 3, 2010 Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 I bet this has been asked before -but can you log knock events? Yes, you can via OBD2. Question is whether his OT1 supports this particular channel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted February 3, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 You are assuming then that the knock sensors are picking up actual knock events. I am suggesting that they may be picking up artifacts of some other noise in the engine or accessories that occurs at that level. Or that they may have some sensitivity issue or another. Since it's only at that point, it really might not be the knock sensors at all.. Given that you tried it with higher octane fuel and it didn't change (plus your timing levels when the AFRs and timing start to drop a little) I would guess that it isn't genuine knock events. Nevertheless, you are saying that nothing mirrored this with the Woth setup and similar conditions? That is something to work with, and there is probably something you can get adjusted in your turbo tuner I bet. Did you pay to have the Woth tune turned into a turbo tuner map file? I might try reverting to that map and seeing if your datalogs show any similar such behavior (unless you've already done this). Then, backtrack what you have changed, and see if you can isolate what changes are triggering this. The Woth tune is on a separate flashed ECU. I went back & looked at a couple of logs where I was running similar boost levels. I have a revised tune from Woth, so once I have that in hand, I can better compare & contrast, which is my intention Similar part throttle/full load range (WOTH) -------time ------- rpm -------- boost------AFR-------- timing------maf-----TPS I bet this has been asked before -but can you log knock events? I'll check & see if it's in my list of available OBDII channels via the OT-1. Good Thinking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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