ozzimark Posted February 10, 2010 Report Share Posted February 10, 2010 Nothing to do with fuel pressure that I can see. Why do you think so? I don't actually, I was just curious. You're definitely not running out of fuel, that's for sure, but it occurred to me that the opposite could be happening, and FP is higher than expected, causing the strange richness. The ignition timing is also still slightly retarded from what would be expected. Have you messed around with cam timing recently to see how it affects the rich area? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted February 10, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2010 I don't actually, I was just curious. You're definitely not running out of fuel, that's for sure, but it occurred to me that the opposite could be happening, and FP is higher than expected, causing the strange richness. The ignition timing is also still slightly retarded from what would be expected. Have you messed around with cam timing recently to see how it affects the rich area? The tune is calibrated to the 550cc injectors. The last thing I did was put in new plugs @ slightly lesser gap - .028" vs .032". I haven't touched the cams again since resetting them to stock: exh 4ºADV int 0º. I'm not going to move them until I have the overall tune refined. I'm focusing on mine, since I feel it's closer than the Woth tune. I just need to lean out the overall map to get rid of the tens, and then try to isolate the 9's. It's not so straightfroward since the MAF load/TPS position doesn't directly correspond to TT load scaling, I tried logging OBDII calculated load, and that was no better. I think I said in an earlier post that some of the rich spots turned out to be in the 42-60% range. The Woth tune seems to have that issue - mine are now slightly higher up, I think (which is the problem, I'd like to know rather than be guessing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzimark Posted February 10, 2010 Report Share Posted February 10, 2010 Yeah, you definitely seem to be on your way towards resolving the issue, I'm just concerned that both your custom TT tune and the Woth tune have the same richness issues combined with what looks to be timing pull. I'm picking my brain over possible underlying issues that would cause that behavior in your logging, or if it's really just a tune problem. Did you try unplugging the knock sensors from the wire harness as was suggested? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted February 10, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2010 Yeah, you definitely seem to be on your way towards resolving the issue, I'm just concerned that both your custom TT tune and the Woth tune have the same richness issues combined with what looks to be timing pull. I'm picking my brain over possible underlying issues that would cause that behavior in your logging, or if it's really just a tune problem. Did you try unplugging the knock sensors from the wire harness as was suggested? Similar rich issue, but, as I said, I have removed much of it from my tune, and what's left is further up the rpm scale, so it's definitely resolveable. I'm not going to run without the knock sensors - I'd expect the ECU to immediately enter a limp mode without knock sensing feedback. It's (the rich area) definitely in the the area where boost builds very rapidly, so I have to assume the rapid increase in flow has something to do with it. I'm also considering getting another Bosch front 02 - I'm wondering if the one I have isn't providing proper feedback, as sometimes after a hard run/cool down I'll restart & the AFR's will be very high until a few moments of driving, then it stabilizes again. I don't recall having that issue with my old 02 sensor, which I replaced when the BG pinion explosion ripped the wires out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted February 12, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 Getting better - logs from today - getting serious wheel hop in 2nd now Much of the really heavy 9's are gone - the ones that are there are immediately after shifting and pass quickly, unlike before. Still need to smooth overall map, fix some of the heavier timing pulls, areas still in the tens, etc... then I can raise the boost some more Recent Maps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzimark Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 Wow, looking pretty good H! How much smoother is the engine when pulling in high gear? I'm glad to see that the timing is coming up as well. Sounds like it's time for you to get back into that Quaife group buy. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted February 12, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 Wow, looking pretty good H! How much smoother is the engine when pulling in high gear? I'm glad to see that the timing is coming up as well. Sounds like it's time for you to get back into that Quaife group buy. It feels good. There are a few places where it levels off - you can see anywhere the timing gets pulled down to 4-5º, it looses power. It's still building boost all the way to 7500, so I just have to figure out where to pull a little more requested timing, and add/subtract a little fuel here & there to even it out. The finer details I need a co-pilot to monitor the Map Trace more accurately - I can't but glance at the screen momentarily when I see the AFR go too far one way or the other on my AEM. I changed the front 02 yesterday - there was some crud on the intermediate-to-02 harness signal connectors. I'm hoping that was the cause of my sometimes erratic (high) AFR's on startup after hard pull. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzimark Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 I changed the front 02 yesterday - there was some crud on the intermediate-to-02 harness signal connectors. I'm hoping that was the cause of my sometimes erratic (high) AFR's on startup after hard pull. Fascinating. I'll keep that in mind for when I change my O2s.. If I didn't live on the opposite side of the state, I'd offer to help you out with monitoring data during pulls Adam needs to get the built-in data logging in TT sorted out asap, it's pretty much the only thing that's holding me back from getting one at this point. Also, you haven't messed with the boost control within TT at all because you're running a standalone EBC? Have you considered switching back to ECU control? From some things that I've read on teh intarwebz, it seems that the ECU may do funky things with fuel and timing when it can't quite get the boost levels it is aiming for. Who knows if that's actually true though :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted February 13, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2010 Fascinating. I'll keep that in mind for when I change my O2s.. If I didn't live on the opposite side of the state, I'd offer to help you out with monitoring data during pulls Adam needs to get the built-in data logging in TT sorted out asap, it's pretty much the only thing that's holding me back from getting one at this point. Also, you haven't messed with the boost control within TT at all because you're running a standalone EBC? Have you considered switching back to ECU control? From some things that I've read on teh intarwebz, it seems that the ECU may do funky things with fuel and timing when it can't quite get the boost levels it is aiming for. Who knows if that's actually true though No intention of reverting to ECU boost control. The ECU can have no way of knowing what actual boost you're running, it can only rely on 02 & other feedback data, as far as I can see. In any event, I have the boost sliders set to 100% at every level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzimark Posted February 13, 2010 Report Share Posted February 13, 2010 In any event, I have the boost sliders set to 100% at every level. Hm. does the ECU behave differently if you have it set otherwise? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted February 13, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2010 Hm. does the ECU behave differently if you have it set otherwise? I haven't tried. Don't see any reason to do so, really. I could try it just to see if it has any effect, if that's what you're asking. Adam @ TT could probably answer the question directly - maybe I'll just ask him :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzimark Posted February 13, 2010 Report Share Posted February 13, 2010 I could try it just to see if it has any effect, if that's what you're asking. That's exactly it I figure it takes 5 minutes. Log a run, change the sliders a bunch, log another run, look for any obvious changes in what the ECU is trying to do. B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbotuner Posted February 13, 2010 Report Share Posted February 13, 2010 That's exactly it I figure it takes 5 minutes. Log a run, change the sliders a bunch, log another run, look for any obvious changes in what the ECU is trying to do. The sliders shouldn't make any difference to the fueling. If you lower the sliders, all that will happen is that your face will hit the windscreen when you get the fuel cut from the ECU when it detects an overboost condition!!! If you are at 1.5-1.6 bar, the fuel cut will feel rather violent!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted February 13, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2010 The sliders shouldn't make any difference to the fueling. If you lower the sliders, all that will happen is that your face will hit the windscreen when you get the fuel cut from the ECU when it detects an overboost condition!!! If you are at 1.5-1.6 bar, the fuel cut will feel rather violent!!! OK - I won't be trying that, then! :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzimark Posted February 15, 2010 Report Share Posted February 15, 2010 The sliders shouldn't make any difference to the fueling. Exactly. When so little is known about the fundamental operation of these ECUs, why leave it to shouldn't, when we have the ability to find out what the actual effect is? Maybe my philosophy of finding out as much as I can about a system will get me into trouble someday, but this type of response is the plague of the Volvo performance community imo. I don't mean to offend, but you created this functionality in the ECUs, and gave us the ability to mess with it, and yet you're suppressing the quest for additional knowledge and understanding of the tool you have created by simply saying that it "shouldn't" do anything besides induce fuel cut. :blink: I'm still in favor of adjusting the sliders, just not so much that the ECU hits fuel cut. If you don't wanna do it, I'll just find out on my own later :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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