lookforjoe Posted October 7, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2010 So pull the dip stick, stick a draft tube on it, and see if you get less smoke. Takes like 5 minutes.... IMO the stock box is marginal at best for 7000rpm and 20+psi you probably need additional breathing, steel wool or not. I see. The only reason I don't like that idea is the oil spray that will get under the car - but it sounds like a nice quick easy test. You did the same to determine that yours also requires additional venting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
95 854 t-5 Posted October 7, 2010 Report Share Posted October 7, 2010 I think I agree with Captain Bondo on this one you need to isolate the drain tube from CC pressure/ give it somewhere else to go. You could tap the second oil port on the head and vent it to another CC... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted October 7, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2010 I think I agree with Captain Bondo on this one you need to isolate the drain tube from CC pressure/ give it somewhere else to go. You could tap the second oil port on the head and vent it to another CC... I already have a secondary cam cover baffled vent. I need to confirm that I didn't cause an obstruction in my existing catch can. Then I'll try the dipstick tube vent :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bondo Posted October 7, 2010 Report Share Posted October 7, 2010 I see. The only reason I don't like that idea is the oil spray that will get under the car - but it sounds like a nice quick easy test. You did the same to determine that yours also requires additional venting? Stick the end of the tube into a plastic coke bottle then. Do I have to think of everything? I've done it dozens of times on dozens of cars. I reckon I need 2 -10an breather fittings on the head. On the to-do this for this winter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volvo5.0 Posted October 7, 2010 Report Share Posted October 7, 2010 (edited) IMO the stock box is marginal at best for 7000rpm and 20+psi you probably need additional breathing, steel wool or not. My buddy drag races a Chevy Beretta (8.2 sec. 1/4 mile on alcohol) and says crankcase ventilation is an issue also for him. He uses a air pump attached to his catch can to pull a vacuum in the crankcase. How about the stock system with the addition of some kind of an air pump setup that could be triggered by say, an EBC. Have the boost controller set for whatever pressure you want and use the signal from it to activate a relay to turn on the air pump for your "secondary" pcv at high boost levels. During normal driving the stock pcv setup may be adequate. Maybe drill and tap a port in the cam cover to install a gauge to monitor the crankcase pressure (hopefully not pressure but vacuum ). Might need to experiment with different types of restrictions or orifices in the hose to get it dialed in, but it might work. Edited October 7, 2010 by Volvo5.0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted October 7, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2010 Stick the end of the tube into a plastic coke bottle then. Do I have to think of everything? I've done it dozens of times on dozens of cars. I reckon I need 2 -10an breather fittings on the head. On the to-do this for this winter. I ran the car today, and it appeared that the oil smoke was gone (having revamped the drain tube again last night) - but it was also raining lightly, which dampens the smoke anyway. On the way home, I could see that it was still puffing under heavy accel shift conditions, definitely less, but still there. So, I made a draft tube that would fit nicely & not spray my car with oil PTC elbow, brake booster elbow & hose... snug fit on the dipstick & trails on the ground below... Did a hard uphill pull, and no sign of oil smoke (yay!) Oil spray all over the tailgate, however! So, now I need to bypass the Catch Can, and see if the same situation results. If it does, then the issue is simply that I restricted my already modded PCV by adding all that steel wool - if it makes no difference, then I need to increase my crank/head venting further. The good news is that is not my turbo (again) !!!! My buddy drag races a Chevy Beretta (8.2 sec. 1/4 mile on alcohol) and says crankcase ventilation is an issue also for him. He uses a air pump attached to his catch can to pull a vacuum in the crankcase. How about the stock system with the addition of some kind of an air pump setup that could be triggered by say, an EBC. Have the boost controller set for whatever pressure you want and use the signal from it to activate a relay to turn on the air pump for your "secondary" pcv at high boost levels. During normal driving the stock pcv setup may be adequate. Maybe drill and tap a port in the cam cover to install a gauge to monitor the crankcase pressure (hopefully not pressure but vacuum ). Might need to experiment with different types of restrictions or orifices in the hose to get it dialed in, but it might work. Thanks for the input, interesting idea. I'll have to look at that if my mechanical venting continues to be an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted October 8, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2010 Well, mine is fixed. (Not, see further on) I'm so happy it's resolved & it's not the turbo (this time). Many thanks to Cpt Bondo & 94 854 t-5 for suggesting I look again at the PCV system. The steel wool in the can was not an issue - after proving that CC pressure was the issue with the draft tube, I bypassed the catch can entirely to confirm whether the stock breather and my cam vent were up to snuff. No oil smoke. So, I reconnected the catch can, and disconnected the Jegs water separator, no oil smoke. So, the problem in my case is the filter in the jegs trap is too restrictive. Since I have the steel wool in the catch can now, I just threw away the jegs filter. The only reason I added it in the first place, was due to the oil vapor smell, which is greatly reduced with the stuffed catch can. So, I still have this setup in place after the catch can, but now the separator is just an empty chamber, and the outlet dumps into the frame rail, instead of through a filter as shown. I may just simply it again & stick the filter back on the catch can outlet, as long as I don't get oil residue build up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricF Posted October 8, 2010 Report Share Posted October 8, 2010 Hussein, I always thought you had a closed crankcase ventilation system-- er, routed back to the turbo intake? How does the open air element fit into the equation? A 3-port catch can? (crankcase, intake, open air?) I would eliminate any open air connections if possible, and rely on the vacuum ahead of the compressor inlet to keep the systemic pressure in vacuum. The vacuum generated by the intake is compromised when there is an outlet to atmospheric pressure. In all of my whiteblocks, I have never been able to successfully vent to the atmosphere in any capacity without smoking... Now, if you've just gotten your system to work to your satisfaction and eliminated all the smoking, then don't change things on my account and instead have a beer to reward your efforts ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikS Posted October 8, 2010 Report Share Posted October 8, 2010 Been following this thread as I'm now finally tuning with TT. Maybe you have over complicated things a bit as Eric is trying to say? A recirc, like the way these engines were intended may be the simplest solution given your goals. IDK, just trying to understand. Its good to experiment, but there can only be so many cooks in the kitchen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bondo Posted October 8, 2010 Report Share Posted October 8, 2010 Hussein, I always thought you had a closed crankcase ventilation system-- er, routed back to the turbo intake? How does the open air element fit into the equation? A 3-port catch can? (crankcase, intake, open air?) I would eliminate any open air connections if possible, and rely on the vacuum ahead of the compressor inlet to keep the systemic pressure in vacuum. The vacuum generated by the intake is compromised when there is an outlet to atmospheric pressure. In all of my whiteblocks, I have never been able to successfully vent to the atmosphere in any capacity without smoking... Now, if you've just gotten your system to work to your satisfaction and eliminated all the smoking, then don't change things on my account and instead have a beer to reward your efforts This is why I am saying you need a pair of -10an fittings coming off the head, in addition to the stock block breather port - open air works but you need lots of flow. No doubt using turbo vaccuum works with less hoses/fittings etc, but IMO re-introducing those low-octane hydrocarbons back into the motor is too big of a price to pay. Just my opinion. Glad this fixed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted October 8, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2010 Hussein, I always thought you had a closed crankcase ventilation system-- er, routed back to the turbo intake? How does the open air element fit into the equation? A 3-port catch can? (crankcase, intake, open air?) I would eliminate any open air connections if possible, and rely on the vacuum ahead of the compressor inlet to keep the systemic pressure in vacuum. The vacuum generated by the intake is compromised when there is an outlet to atmospheric pressure. In all of my whiteblocks, I have never been able to successfully vent to the atmosphere in any capacity without smoking... Now, if you've just gotten your system to work to your satisfaction and eliminated all the smoking, then don't change things on my account and instead have a beer to reward your efforts I did have it plumbed back into the inlet, but was getting a fair bit of oil with that setup, especially over 7K rpm. Perhaps it would be different now, what with the stuffed CC. I don't want to go back to the oil in the inlet tract. Yes I have a 3-port CC - the vent now goes to open air instead of the inlet (via PTC as illustrtated). I added the filter because of oil vapor smells. With the elimination of the filter insert within the last trap, there is no longer any oil smoke. I am still running under 20psi, though - which was the tipping point last time. I'm having trouble getting the Apexi duty cycle right for boost over 18psi - maybe I need to crank down on the Greddy Recirc, but it wasn't an issue before with the 20g; boost is boost after all. BTW - that other APexi head unit is still dead, so there must be a component failure. This is why I am saying you need a pair of -10an fittings coming off the head, in addition to the stock block breather port - open air works but you need lots of flow. No doubt using turbo vaccuum works with less hoses/fittings etc, but IMO re-introducing those low-octane hydrocarbons back into the motor is too big of a price to pay. Just my opinion. Glad this fixed it. I will consider that as a future mod, if I have any recurring issues once I raise the boost over 20psi. Thanks again for all your advice! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted October 9, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2010 Figured out that the new boost limit was due to the Greddy valve setting - it appears that in fact with the new compressor, the spring tension needs to be greater, for the same amount of boost. Doesn't make sense to me, but there it is. Now that I have my 21psi back, I also got a few oil puffs. I added a second cam vent - right now it's plumbed into the baffled can I made. May need to increase the ID of the outlet, I'll find out tomorrow when I road test it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanky Posted October 9, 2010 Report Share Posted October 9, 2010 Nope....Nope... Nope.... it has to be the turbo drain line, there is no way the smoke could be from oil pressure or crankcase pressure on your car or mackieb's :lol:. Glad you got it fixed Huessein!! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted October 10, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2010 Nope....Nope... Nope.... it has to be the turbo drain line, there is no way the smoke could be from oil pressure or crankcase pressure on your car or mackieb's :lol:. Glad you got it fixed Huessein!! Well, to be honest the drain tube was an issue, and the turbo itself was an issue. I just should have tried venting the crankcase sooner. The news today was that putting in that cam cap without any extra sealant/epoxy was a very bad idea. It blew out on the way to the shop for my NYS inspection - I had a MASSIVE cloud of oil smoke, but it didn't look like just oil - so I pulled right over & popped the hood - flames shot out off the manifold. I put it out right away with my fire extinguisher, but it scared the shit out of me! A cop was behind me, and he also pulled over to see if I needed any help. Fortunately I wasn't doing a 3rd gear pull at the time I waited until the smoke cleared to check that nothing was cooked, and tapped the cam cap back into place, to get the car the last 1/2 mile to the shop. No damage to the car, thankfully, just had to spend a hour or so degreasing & cleaning all the oil residue. I cleaned the cam cap surfaces & used an anaerobic sealer on the cap, then fabricated a steel retaining plate with standoffs that bolts to the cam cover on either side of the cam plug. I'm redoing the vent lines & fittings to 10-12mm ID. I'm adding a 1/8th NPT port to the breather system so I can hook up a pressure gauge & see what is going on when vented to atmosphere, and with the vent plumbing back into the intake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flaco Posted October 10, 2010 Report Share Posted October 10, 2010 The fact that it blew out tells a whole lot about the pressure inside the crankcase.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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