lookforjoe Posted March 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 Added the 650cc injectors yesterday, recalibrated fuel map -8%. Need to readjust the WOT sliders, now it's too rich up top. Running 3.5bar regulated pressure, so they're actually 700cc base. Quick log from this morning; highlighted area is way too rich @ part throttle, need to fix that too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mesoam Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 H are you going to drop the head on your bottom end or use this whole motor? I haven't seen any of this! looks great. I'm interested to see how the car runs with the new setup. Have you looked into a different exhaust man as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B Mac Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 H are you going to drop the head on your bottom end or use this whole motor? I haven't seen any of this! looks great. I'm interested to see how the car runs with the new setup. Have you looked into a different exhaust man as well? H, Mark and I are working on a lil som'som. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted March 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 H are you going to drop the head on your bottom end or use this whole motor? I haven't seen any of this! looks great. I'm interested to see how the car runs with the new setup. Have you looked into a different exhaust man as well? Just replacing the head. I'm torn on replacing items in stages - intake first, for example - so that I can judge where the differences occur. I think I'll have to do the intake ahead of time, or I'll never know. The exhaust manifold is being worked on as Ben intimated... :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted March 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2011 Just replacing the head. I'm torn on replacing items in stages - intake first, for example - so that I can judge where the differences occur. I think I'll have to do the intake ahead of time, or I'll never know. The exhaust manifold is being worked on as Ben intimated... Revised the IC hotside in preparation for the new manifold - reshaped to fit over the raised plenum design (next on the agenda for install) & increased to 2.5" from outlet to IC inlet removed one coupling, so now only 3 silicone junctions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilber33 Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 :tup: Excellent work as always. When is the new block supposed to go in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted March 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 Excellent work as always. When is the new block supposed to go in? No block, just newer ported head. Manifold first, head will be over spring break in April. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas850Turbo Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 I'm a bit late to the party, but I was wondering if you're planning on doing a back-to-back dyno comparison with that intake you made? I'm interested to see what effect all those changes will make. Just from decreasing runner length and increasing runner ID, your top end will improve at the expense of mid-range, but I have no idea what that plenum shape will produce. I'd be a bit worried about getting some strong resonances off that flat wall facing the runner inlets at certain RPMs screwing with your cylinder to cylinder distribution. That's why most plenums you see have curved walls, besides it being a more efficient shape strength-wise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted March 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 I'm a bit late to the party, but I was wondering if you're planning on doing a back-to-back dyno comparison with that intake you made? I'm interested to see what effect all those changes will make. Just from decreasing runner length and increasing runner ID, your top end will improve at the expense of mid-range, but I have no idea what that plenum shape will produce. I'd be a bit worried about getting some strong resonances off that flat wall facing the runner inlets at certain RPMs screwing with your cylinder to cylinder distribution. That's why most plenums you see have curved walls, besides it being a more efficient shape strength-wise. Not really back-to-back. Mustang Dyno is $200 for 3 pulls. I'm going this week (hopefully) for a current baseline. I will be installing the intake next, but chances are I will also have the head done before Carlisle, so the next dyno after will be with intake/head/cams. Many of the articles I read on plenum design indicated that actual plenum cross section shape was not that relevant, esp. when the whole thing is pressurized. We'll see what happens. Worst case, it comes back off & the modified ME7 NA manifold goes on Which is why I'm doing the manifold before the head/cam swap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B Mac Posted March 10, 2011 Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 Is that an intake air temp sensor down there Hussein? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted March 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 Is that an intake air temp sensor down there Hussein? Yes - I have another in the TB hard pipe, and another in the airbox, so I can switch between the three to monitor temps from the info manager Working some of the kinks out of the revised 700cc map seems a tad lean at part load, then a tad rich as it goes into high load - OK @ WOT (4.3x)TPS need to get a clean 4th gear pull from going WOT @ 3500 to redline before I go to the dyno. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted March 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 I'm a bit late to the party, but I was wondering if you're planning on doing a back-to-back dyno comparison with that intake you made? I'm interested to see what effect all those changes will make. Just from decreasing runner length and increasing runner ID, your top end will improve at the expense of mid-range, but I have no idea what that plenum shape will produce. I'd be a bit worried about getting some strong resonances off that flat wall facing the runner inlets at certain RPMs screwing with your cylinder to cylinder distribution. That's why most plenums you see have curved walls, besides it being a more efficient shape strength-wise. Forgot to add: This is the stock ME7 plenum cutaway: aside from the (marginal) taper, it's pretty much a flat wall, and nowhere near the ideal runner ID to plenum wall ratio If you have other practical insights, I'd love to hear them. I did scour the various forums (not just Volvo) before I began fabrication, looking at all spectrum of manifold designs out there. Losing some mid range wouldn't be a bad thing, BTW, that's where the torque builds too rapidly as it is, so maybe it will produce a more even powerband. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackBeast Posted March 10, 2011 Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 What injectors are you now using? Im guessing you don't have the same idle issues that you had with the Siemens Deka 630cc and that I had with the RC 650cc and 750cc injectors!?! http://www.fiveomotorsport.com/import-high-performance-fuel-injectors/?itemid=1367 Wouldn't be those by any chance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted March 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 What injectors are you now using? Im guessing you don't have the same idle issues that you had with the Siemens Deka 630cc and that I had with the RC 650cc and 750cc injectors!?! http://www.fiveomotorsport.com/import-high-performance-fuel-injectors/?itemid=1367 Wouldn't be those by any chance? Hi No - no idle issues with the Bosch 650cc's. It was only the Siemens/Deka injectors that don't play well with ME4.4 I bought the Bosch 650's from Five-0, but not those - they have batches of custom calibrated Bosch injectors from time to time. Since they vary in actual flow, I asked for a set on the high side, rather than lower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas850Turbo Posted March 10, 2011 Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 You should read this: http://www.profblairandassociates.com/pdfs/RET_Bellmouth_Sept.pdf As for runner tuning you can calculate with some degree of accuracy what rpm you get a tuning effect in your runners using RPM for peak torque = 642 x c x [ SQRT (S/[L x V] ) ] x [ SQRT { (CR-1)/ (CR+1) } ] = 218,280 x [ SQRT (S/[L x V] ) ] x [ SQRT { (CR-1)/ (CR+1) } ] where c = speed of sound (remember to account for IAT), S = runner cross-sectional area, L = runner length, V = displacement per cylinder, and CR = comp ratio. This is a simplified formula, as the plenum also acts as a resonator and has an effect- I'll try to find the formula for that, I have it somewhere. You can get within about 500 rpm with these calculations, at least that's what I've seen comparing it to 1D engine simulation in Ricardo WAVE. The other thing engine simulation tells you about is secondary resonances that change the VE at other rpms and can have a large effect on overall torque curve shape. I haven't seen the inside of that plenum before, thanks for sharing. It's hard to guess what's going on inside a plenum without 3D CFD- there are vortices that can pop up and ruin air distribution or standing waves at certain rpms, but if you copied the stock shape somewhat that's the least risk, you'll probably be fine. My favorite plenum is the one Audi used on the LMP R8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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