lookforjoe Posted March 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 Cue broken record.... First of all, like you have been told countless times - do pulls with progressively increasing amounts of boost pressure. Do'nt just jump on there with 24psi or whatever insane amount and beat your head against the wall. Do a pull at 12psi. Adjust as needed. Then at 15psi. NOTE the differences! Then at 18, etc. How else are you going to tell where the system is at in terms of overall efficiency when you don't actually progress through the tuning in a systematic way? What does the car make at 12psi? Do you even know? Lowest boost possible is 15psi, that's what the wastegate is preloaded at. EDIT: Last year, I tried to do exactly that on the dyno, start low & work up, but the timing pull was so bad even at low boost it became pointless. It did not occur to me that the poor ventilation/cooling of the dyno was the primary issue. My biggest frustration was that the timing is pulled heavily on the dyno! I already posted an equivalent data log in 4th that shows more steady timing under the same boost levels. I did start at lower boost at have progressively raised it & tweaked the maps over the past several months. No point dyno'ing that low, at that location anyway, since it's still gonna heat soak. I'll have to wait until Carlisle again to get a better idea of where I'm at. Second of all, If I've said it once, I've said it 100 times. Until TT product a manual that actually describes how injector pulsewidth and spark advance are actually calculated, and what inputs affect them in what way, the system is next to useless. I would certainly like at least to have a working map trace/log within TT. There is no question that I have to do much guesswork in terms of making adjustments, obviously I can tell what rpm range an issue is occurring in, but at what load? That is not clear at all, given the lack of direct translation between TT "load" & MAF load, or the OBDII calculated load. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the commissar! Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 I feel your pain H, I am going through the same type problems trying to tune mine but at a MUCH slower pace...If I had one TT wish it would be map-trace log...It would be interesting to see your maps although I am only at ~18+psi peak on an 18T. And my goal is not necessarily high peak power but more usable low and mid-range power since this car is first and foremost a street car that's daily driven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dublin14 Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 (edited) Hussein you have alot of patience. I have some... but the last thing I will do is spend months trying to get my car dialed in. I have alot pals with tuned cars and after a few hrs of tuning for most all has shown well. After all the $$ I have spent on my car it better perform. If not... its goodbye Volvo. Again who has a big Turbo and getting great results from the TT and the 4.4M? Is there anyone that is having some luck with this combo and big Turbos? Starting to wonder if I just pissed away $1000 on a system that isnt up to par with the 4.4m I hope thats not the case... I will find out very soon. Edited March 31, 2011 by dublin14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted March 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 I would be glad to take a look at your TTmap or a screen shot of the timing if you would like?!I run a GT30 with 3inch maf. This is the timing map I was running at the time HIGHWAY 4th gear pull (Dyno pull with no timing is on previous page) I switched to this one yesterday (based on one JCV had tweaked for me some time ago), and lowered boost to 18psi HIGHWAY 4th gear pull -have to raise WOT sliders to get AFR's back into the 12's on this combination Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted March 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 Hussein you have alot of patience. I have some... but the last thing I will do is spend months trying to get my car dialed in. I have alot pals with tuned cars and after a few hrs of tuning for most all has shown well. After all the $$ I have spent on my car it better perform. If not... its goodbye Volvo. If you have access to a dyno & someone who knows how to tune, I don't see why it should take long. I'm doing this single-handed. Dyno time around me is $200 an hour, and I already wasted $500 last time. I definitely need to find a shop with a better dyno setup, but also need someone who can interpret TT/ME4.4's maxxed out MAF, etc.. to get this refined. However, I should still be able to get it in the ballpark, as should you. For basic numbers, at least the Carlisle Dyno is open air, with a decent cooling blower, it just sucks that it's only FWD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
550 Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 I know you mentioned trying to find someone to tune this for you, but really, you seem pretty well versed in this. I don't think out of 2 tables that there is really much to have to account for. Maybe it's time to think of other tuning options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johann Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 Butt dyno should tell you the chute is out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted March 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 Butt dyno should tell you the chute is out... Well, yeah. The whole dyno pull was like that, but my main point is that I don't know where I'm actually at, given the better timing I see on highway pulls over the same range. I know you mentioned trying to find someone to tune this for you, but really, you seem pretty well versed in this. I don't think out of 2 tables that there is really much to have to account for. Maybe it's time to think of other tuning options. The only other real option I would have is to go to EPL, and pay a couple of grand, and get a stock ECU flashed with whatever they come up with. Not sure I'm that frustrated yet! EDIT: If you're comparing the last two tables, those are both highway. The crap dyno table is on the previous page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dublin14 Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 (edited) If you have access to a dyno & someone who knows how to tune, I don't see why it should take long. I'm doing this single-handed. Dyno time around me is $200 an hour, and I already wasted $500 last time. I definitely need to find a shop with a better dyno setup, but also need someone who can interpret TT/ME4.4's maxxed out MAF, etc.. to get this refined. However, I should still be able to get it in the ballpark, as should you. For basic numbers, at least the Carlisle Dyno is open air, with a decent cooling blower, it just sucks that it's only FWD. A friend has a tuner that he has been using for years but doesnt tune anymore for a living. He says its better to do a road tune and then hit the Dyno. So after the engine is broken in im going to pick him up and head out for a few hrs and let him street tune while I drive. Im also going to hit the dyno for no more than an 1 hr - 1.5hrs tops at a time. I would rather go a few times and tune the car that way than spending 3hrs beating the car up with heat soak on the dyno as alot of people do.I think the only person that comes out ahead with that is the tuners wallet. It also gives a chance to see whats working. Will see how it goes? Edited March 31, 2011 by dublin14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackT5 Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 Hussein, what type of dyno is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackBeast Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 As you know, I gave up with the TT last year on my M4.4, due to the problems with it not being able to control the 750cc injectors. I would seriously consider having an MTE custom map. Almost a year later on an MTE custom map and mine is doing well, especially at WOT. Going to have some revisions in May to improve the map further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackT5 Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 Hussein, what type of dyno is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted March 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 As you know, I gave up with the TT last year on my M4.4, due to the problems with it not being able to control the 750cc injectors. Almost a year later on an MTE custom map and mine is doing well, especially at WOT. Going to have some revisions in May to improve the map further. Were those Bosch Injectors? I had that issue with Siemens DekaV, Bosch injectors calibrate fine. I still prefer the fact that I can make changes myself as the hardware changes - maybe MTE is close by you, but I have no such access, and I'm done with premapped tunes. Hussein, what type of dyno is it? Mustang 500 AWD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
550 Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 I just feel like you are at the end of what M4.4 TT can offer you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdlimy Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 Hussein, what type of dyno is it? +1 You need to get on a load dyno that the operator will let you dial into every load cell and tune your ign perfectly, some dynojets can, dynodynamics can and the best would be dynapack(if you can find one it will cost you some money but it is without a doubt the best way to tune), not sure about mustangs, but if you can find one that's only 2wd it would be worth it tune fwd for the time being. Can you disable the knock sensors completly? If you can I would strongly reccomend it, use the detcans you have and start conservative on timing and you will quickly find out what timing your motors likes and doesn't like at every load range, seriously tho get on a load dyno without the knock sensors. Fyi majority of tuners don't ever use knock sensors at all.Also consider running a standalone ems but as a piggy back to your stock ecu to retain your functions you would lose when gutting the stock ecu. I like my new vems unit, it works well, much better unit than megasquirt and you could easily wire into the stock harness with the stock ecu and never know its in the car...just a possibilty. You may not be at the limits of 4.4 yet but don't you think you will reach them eventually? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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