lookforjoe Posted February 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 Still playing with injector constant, latency & warmup tables. Car runs well, just cold start/warmup issues continue did a pretty hard 4th gear pull, up to 7300 - AFR's & timing values seem pretty darn good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdlimy Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 Maybe. If I get over 500AWHP with M4.4, I'm not sure I'll bother with the learning curve of another EMS.... You know how to tune, that is more than 50% of the task at hand. In my opinion you could have that car dialed in making the numbers you want in no time with a real standalone ems. All the tweaking i am seeing you do with m4.4 is much more complicated than the tuning i ever did with megasquirt and vems. I know you have good reasons for not converting to standalone, i just want you to know that i do truly believe it would be a walk in the park for you with all the tuning skills you have developed over these several years. I can come and go from vs over months and years and still always come back to this thread if i want to see real progress 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackT5 Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 (edited) You know how to tune, that is more than 50% of the task at hand. In my opinion you could have that car dialed in making the numbers you want in no time with a real standalone ems. All the tweaking i am seeing you do with m4.4 is much more complicated than the tuning i ever did with megasquirt and vems. I know you have good reasons for not converting to standalone, i just want you to know that i do truly believe it would be a walk in the park for you with all the tuning skills you have developed over these several years. I can come and go from vs over months and years and still always come back to this thread if i want to see real progress I think he is waiting til the weather gets nicer and he has another car to drive. but +1000. Get rid of that MAF and go speed density. Edited February 18, 2014 by BlackT5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted February 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 Thanks Robbie My biggest concern honestly is getting sub zero cold start & warmup setting right. I'm having enough problems resolving that with M4.4. I need to know it will always start and run since it is and will continue to be my DD. I'll have to contact Homer again - if he's using his for DD and has no problems dialing in for wide range of ambient temp conditions, maybe I'll switch sooner rather than later. Not touching it before Carlisle, though - that would be asking for trouble. Also need warmer weather to get the X1/9 engine reinstalled and finysh the LH2.2 conversion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted February 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2014 Found out on Wednesday that the primary reason for my cold start / warmup woes was the timing map. I was using a table based on my TT map, with values closer to the M4.3 in the lower rpm scales. M4.4 has idle timing values of 5-6 degrees, which just made no sense - HOWEVER - with those values back closer to stock, the engine now starts & runs much happier in zero © and below weather. Warm starts were generally not a problem, but sometimes it would stall after first start when hot. EDIT feb/2015: Not. Warmup Factor is primary cause. That has to be lowered for modified setups with larger MAF housing, larger injectors basic table values Still needs some tweaking - I did raise the latency values in the 13-14v range to bring the STFT down a touch, along with raising the inj constant somewhat over the calculated value for the 1000cc injectors at 3.3bar idle FP. I now need a replacement BG - it started whining horribly when cold - it may be just bearings, but I don't have a spare with good input splines, so I've ordered a used one from Tom's, and I'll rebuild mine as a backup if it's just the bearings.. Driving on the two flats/bent wheels recently probably didn't help, but it was a used high mileage BG anyway. Heater fan also took a dump - it would work intermittently, which made me think it was a sensor, but with a new fan it works as it should in manual or auto settings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tightmopedman9 Posted February 22, 2014 Report Share Posted February 22, 2014 While at idle the values in the main ignition map are not referenced. Therefore, your adjustments to that map for startup shouldn't make any difference for those conditions. 'Idle ignition angle correction by coolant temp' is the amount of ignition advance added to your idle advance at a given coolant temp. 'Idle ignition angle characteristic' is your ignition angle at idle load. There are a few maps that change the ignition angle based on keeping the cat healthy. On a cold start these maps will retard your ignition to warm up the cat quickly. You should zero these out, that is if you're not running a cat. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted February 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2014 While at idle the values in the main ignition map are not referenced. Therefore, your adjustments to that map for startup shouldn't make any difference for those conditions. 'Idle ignition angle correction by coolant temp' is the amount of ignition advance added to your idle advance at a given coolant temp. 'Idle ignition angle characteristic' is your ignition angle at idle load. There are a few maps that change the ignition angle based on keeping the cat healthy. On a cold start these maps will retard your ignition to warm up the cat quickly. You should zero these out, that is if you're not running a cat. Can these additional maps be added to the XDF? I didn't touch the correction by coolant temp table in this case, the angle characteristic table I had changed to match my main table, since the previous values appeared to match the stock main table lowest load row. I had that (angle characteristic) at stock values previously, and it didn't make any difference. So, the changes to the main map were the only significant change between the tunes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod'sT-5 Posted February 22, 2014 Report Share Posted February 22, 2014 H, looking under the Emissions Category. I found, Ignition Retard for Catalytic Heating at Idle, and delta ignition angle for catalyst heating in part load. Maybe thats what TMM9 is talking about? Rod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted February 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2014 H, looking under the Emissions Category. I found, Ignition Retard for Catalytic Heating at Idle, and delta ignition angle for catalyst heating in part load. Maybe thats what TMM9 is talking about? Rod Thanks, Rod I'll look at those Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted February 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 Zero'd out the Cat heating related tables - see how it goes on the next cold start/warmup. Temps are supposed to drop back over the week Wondering whether I should just drop these adjustments to zero also - looks like they are set to run for quite some time.... current idling values in 2nd pic 1st pic is from this morning before changes - LTFT_I dropped to zero after I zero'd out the cat heating tables Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted March 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 Still playing with the warmup values, lambda delay, and every other table that might effect warmup cycle . In the meantime, I have also found that it's been a tad rich under load conditions (much black smoke under WOT/ heavy accel to the trip back from Edison), so I reduced the latency and minimum injection time values a hair. Did a hard pull this afternoon, but didn't go WOT below 60. 60-120 was still around 8 sec, so pretty much on par with TTusb setup, but richer values. Need to further reduce WOT values below 6K - the AFR range in 4th looks pretty solid, just too rich. No timing pull or knock recorded. EDIT Used the data log playback to determine precisely which cells were used when the part load AFR's get to rich - dropped them a fraction. Red highlights are the revised values. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted March 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 Found out on Wednesday that the primary reason for my cold start / warmup woes was the timing map. I was using a table based on my TT map, with values closer to the M4.3 in the lower rpm scales. In fact, the issue has been the MAF table. EDIT: Problem was Warmup Factor scaling due to much larger injectors. Finally resolved Winter 2014 (Thanks Aaron!!!) The rescaled values are perfect it seems for part load and WOT - it is very responsive - but not good at all in the low end of the scale, where the voltage to flow clearly is more critical. Also thanks to TMM9 for pointing out all the CAT efficiency tables needed to be zeroed out - they pull timing during warmup. Through empirical testing, Piet determined the available MAF scale for 960 MAF has some flaws, which would have contributed further to the scale I was using. Thanks to a MAF editior that Simply Volvo created, I was able to copy & paste the flow values Piet established from 0-1.1956V (having determined that the flow during warmup/elevated RPM falls within that range) into my tune, and with a few small changes to related warmup & idle maps, I feel confident my issues with coldstart/warmup are now gone. It's been buggin me for well over a month, and being somewhat obessive/compulsive, it was not something I was willing to let go & just wait it out for the warmer temps. coldstart this morning almost operating temp no stumble, stall, loading up or hesitation during the process. The next issue is tweaking the values once fully warm, the LTFT_I should not be that high, but minor concern compared to the constant flooding/stalling I've been dealing with every morning & afternoon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod'sT-5 Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 Thats great H! I knew you would get it figured out. Rod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted March 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 Revised part of the MAF scaling - slightly increased the flow values in the idle voltage range to see if it drops the LTFT values once warm. I recorded these values once warm, so I focused on tweaking in the 0.7056 - 0.8624v range. Cold, the range is up around 0.9716-1.1719v, so that area I need to keep leaner to prevent the flooding I was experiencing. last night 18.50 kg/h - .7813v - 6.75degrees @ 930rpm this morning 19.13 kg/h - .7813v - 9degrees @ 930rpm revised values in the left table. tweaked table - see how it goes today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJGreenBudd Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 Glad to hear you got it smoothed out, I bet it feels better not to worry about that all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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