lookforjoe Posted April 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 15, 2014 Built a 4" (OD) inlet tract. Got the honeycomb from the eBay vendor after the fact, as he offers the housing $20 under BIN pricing if you bid on the regular auction and wait a week... Still slowly trying to improve my TIG skills Which also meant buying a new K&N filter (RF-1015) with 4" ID neck, and additional piping. Also switched to AN10 swivel fittings for my breather lines - finally replacing the 1/2" copper elbows I was using. With this, I can run a revised MAF table that measures up to 2200 kg/h (600 g/s vs. Stock 231 g/s). Just installed over the weekend, so haven't done any highway WOT pulls to see if & where the MAF maxxes out. Did a low speed WOT in 2nd - didn't go over 1400 kg/h (390 g/s) but I didn't go over 7K rpm either. I revised the gauge scale after this - it was set to only display up to 1500 kg/h The downside is that the MAF rescaling has re-introduced the warmup rich condition when starting stone cold, so I have to figure out the appropriate tweaks to the MAF table in the warmup voltage range - typically under 1.2v for my setup. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blkaplan Posted April 15, 2014 Report Share Posted April 15, 2014 Looking much more professional with the AN swivel fittings over the copper elbows. How much power should the 2200 kg/h meter correctly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted April 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 15, 2014 Looking much more professional with the AN swivel fittings over the copper elbows. How much power should the 2200 kg/h meter correctly? Yeah, the swivels do look better, but pricey, for sure. Not much of a functional upgrade, really. Regarding the power level supported, I don't know, Ben. Part of the debate is whether the system pulls back once the MAF is maxxed out - since it appears that fueling and timing are pulled from slightly lower load cells (below max load) once this happens. I don't think that is the whole story as it makes sense that load drops in higher Rpms once you pass peak torque range. In my case I believe this is somewhat over 5,5k rpm. So, once I get some 3rd4th WOT pulls logged, I should be able to see what the reality of the situation is. I'm still hoping to get the fuel lines plumbed this week, however the weather is not cooperating so far... I wanted to jack the boost before Carlisle :-( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blkaplan Posted April 15, 2014 Report Share Posted April 15, 2014 Yeah, the swivels do look better, but pricey, for sure. Not much of a functional upgrade, really. Regarding the power level supported, I don't know, Ben. Part of the debate is whether the system pulls back once the MAF is maxxed out - since it appears that fueling and timing are pulled from slightly lower load cells (below max load) once this happens. I don't think that is the whole story as it makes sense that load drops in higher Rpms once you pass peak torque range. In my case I believe this is somewhat over 5,5k rpm. So, once I get some 3rd4th WOT pulls logged, I should be able to see what the reality of the situation is. I'm still hoping to get the fuel lines plumbed this week, however the weather is not cooperating so far... I wanted to jack the boost before Carlisle :-( Just keep it together, I was hoping to actually see this thing this year. ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted April 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 Ran the new 12mm lines from the surge tank to the FPR, royal PITA, and I still need to replace the sender with the modified 3/8" outlet one I made, and deal with the return from surge tank to main tank. I've left the original lines intact, since I'm not ready to deal with the next stage yet... New AN08 feed hose will go something like this... To my new rail that also has an AN08 fitting Feed is attached to the filter, accessible through the access panel above. Return I just have to cut & install the AN08 barb fitting like the ones in the first pic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted April 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 Running the surge tank feed line (10mm, 3/8 QC elbow at sender, AN08 barb at surge tank) and the return (also 10mm) from surge tank to drivers side sending unit. I was able to snake the lines from my sender access over the tank and into the rear cavity over the subframe one at a time, with much silicone spray . Both lines are encased in oil/fuel resistant sleeving. Pics not in order with text.. Snake return line from pass side over to drivers side, over tank, behind heat shields and tank support brackets. Just have to figure out what fitting I can get away with on the LS sender - the standard QC elbows have too shallow an offset to clear the sender cap nut. Next I have to complete the modified sender & DW300 pump transfer from stick sender, install larger (again) fuel rail and fabricate feed line from FPR to rail, wire the relay harness in place, then leak check and hope it's all good - and set regulated pressure :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted April 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 Cheaned up the feed and return routing up front and added DEI heat sheild, in addition to the sheild plate I made previously for the FPR Billet filter access I'm gonna cut the floor pan on the DS as I did on the PS for sender/line access. Then I can determine how best to deal with the sender fitting. I'm leaning towards braising a 3/8" QC fitting over the stock return fitting on the sender, then I can use the full 3/8" QC fitting instead of splicing the 10mm line to a 5/16" QC . Like this: At this point, I may wait til after Carlisle for final fitting, so I don't jinx myself 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted April 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2014 Wrote a frickin paragraph about this & it went away when I switched to PB on my iPhone $&@$)(;34&,|>£{!!!! Anyway, used senders and lines arrived -from a CA R to use fittings for my modified setup. Was also curious exactly what the left sender was comprised of, I've not had one out before, and wasn't about to remove mine if not 100% a necessity. I wasn't sure if the stock return elbow would fit in the 10mm return line. I cut them off the non-rusty lines and it does just fine. So, I can use one if those on my new return from the surge tank, and then I just have to swap out the higher flow main sender I modded, and the fuel dual 044 upgrade will be complete (almost - forgot the fuel rail & braided feed line) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjmcarz Posted April 29, 2014 Report Share Posted April 29, 2014 "At this point, I may wait til after Carlisle for final fitting, so I don't jinx myself" Good idea, we don't want a repeat of the past couple of years! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avboden Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 I guess I just don't understand why you need all this fancy fuel stuff, tons of engines make your sort of power without it. Why can't you just modify the tank and put in a big Aeromotive external system? Sure seems like it would be easier/less weight/better all round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VolvoNor Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 Easy, tinkering and making stuff for your car is good fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted April 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 I guess I just don't understand why you need all this fancy fuel stuff, tons of engines make your sort of power without it. Why can't you just modify the tank and put in a big Aeromotive external system? Sure seems like it would be easier/less weight/better all round. "tons of engines may make my sort of power" without "fancy fuel stuff" - yeah, that's about as vague and general a statement as you can get I guess you didn't look at earlier posts. With 5/16" fuel lines, the system cannot provide sufficient volume at higher load/inj duty cycle. @ 445AWHP, 21psi with 750cc injectors maxed out over 90% duty cycle, the fuel pressure has dropped significantly. In order to make a safe 500+AWHP, I need much more volume than the stock lines or the DW300 single in tank pump can provide. I only need to run another 3psi to make 500AWHP, and at that level, my 6262bb will be barely breaking a sweat, right now it's not even jogging - so more headroom is always a good thing. Since the AWD fuel system is more finicky than FWD, there is no point doing this half ass. Hence the dual pumps in a surge tank, 12mm feed & returns, etc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avboden Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 (edited) I guess you didn't look at earlier posts. With 5/16" fuel lines, the system cannot provide sufficient volume at higher load/inj duty cycle. @ 445AWHP, 21psi with 750cc injectors maxed out over 90% duty cycle, the fuel pressure has dropped significantly. In order to make a safe 500+AWHP, I need much more volume than the stock lines or the DW300 single in tank pump can provide. I only need to run another 3psi to make 500AWHP, and at that level, my 6262bb will be barely breaking a sweat, right now it's not even jogging - so more headroom is always a good thing. Okay let me clarify my question, why chose to keep the internal pump and add the complexity and weight of the surge tank system/dual pumps at all? Wouldn't it be much more effective and simple to get rid of the internal gas pump, modify the tank for a bottom pickup and put on a single highflow external pump with new larger lines all the way to the engine? There're single pumps that can run 1200HP supercharged V8s...i'm sure they can handle your 500HP. That's not to say your system won't work, it will, I just don't get the complexity when such a more simple solution exists. Edited April 30, 2014 by Avboden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted April 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 Okay let me clarify my question, why chose to keep the internal pump and add the complexity and weight of the surge tank system/dual pumps at all? Wouldn't it be much more effective and simple to get rid of the internal gas pump, modify the tank for a bottom pickup and put on a single highflow external pump with new larger lines all the way to the engine? There're single pumps that can run 1200HP supercharged V8s...i'm sure they can handle your 500HP. That's not to say your system won't work, it will, I just don't get the complexity when such a more simple solution exists. Yeah. Problem is you keep talking in generalities. If you had any knowledge of the AWD layout, and it's impact on fuel system layout and design, you would have a better understanding of the path I chose. Lets just start with this: Saddle tank; requires feeder from left to right. Tank itself cannot be "modified". I have chosen the easier, softer way. Of course I didn't need dual pumps or a surge tank, as stated, I don't want to go over this again. Running lines is a royal PITA. If you have no concept of the layout, the above pic should help. The entire rear suspension sits in between and around that tank, along with the fact that the whole setup is set very close to the floor pan/tub. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avboden Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 Thank you for the detailed explanation, I hadn't realized the design of the AWD was quite like that (never had to drop mine or change the pump *knocks on wood*). You're totally right of course. I suppose the other option would have been to just ditch that tank and mount a modest fuel cell in the back, but that would raise the center of mass in the rear and pretty much ruin it as a DD. As always I continue to admire your build! With how much you've done I'm almost surprised you haven't somehow spliced a modern haldex in there :-P Okay i'll shut up now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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