klr142 Posted March 27, 2010 Report Share Posted March 27, 2010 When you get spark blow-out(I'm assuming that's what we're experiencing), does retarding or advancing ignition timing help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klr142 Posted March 27, 2010 Report Share Posted March 27, 2010 I've been dealing with blowout also. Another reason I decided to try & get a base 15psi tune sorted out. I just swapped out my plugs yesterday. I'm running R-5672a-8's gapped @ .036" with the MSD6a. Cap & Rotor only last about 6 months now, just changed them a few weeks ago due to misfire. No boost spikes to speak of with the Apexi activated. Right now, I'm running off the mechanical WG actuator. You can see how flat it is in the log above. I just gave Nick some new Iridium plugs(BKR6EIX, maybe I should get one step colder...!), as the ones he has in there now are old, even though there aren't too many miles on them. What brand are the plugs you speak of? I don't understand the name/terminology, it isn't the normal Bosch, NGK or Denso that I'm used to. Is anyone in the whiteblock world using colder plugs than stock? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted March 27, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2010 I just gave Nick some new Iridium plugs(BKR6EIX, maybe I should get one step colder...!), as the ones he has in there now are old, even though there aren't too many miles on them. What brand are the plugs you speak of? I don't understand the name/terminology, it isn't the normal Bosch, NGK or Denso that I'm used to. Is anyone in the whiteblock world using colder plugs than stock? I'm using NGK's "race" plugs. Two steps colder than stock I don't like iridiums - that may be part of your problem. When you get spark blow-out(I'm assuming that's what we're experiencing), does retarding or advancing ignition timing help? Most of my blow out seems to be from over-rich areas - doesn't seem to make sense, but that's what I see. Retarding the timing never helped me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klr142 Posted March 27, 2010 Report Share Posted March 27, 2010 I have the option of Iridiums or Platinums. Which do you recommend? That's all I have here, and sadly only at stock heat ranges... It'll have to do for the dyno, but yeah, I definitely want to get something else in there. The areas that it's happening does seem to be right where it sometimes dips under 12.0:1 AFRs and I have been shooting for low 12s, nothing more or less, lol. Did increasing the timing ever help you? Haha. I don't know if the car's pulling timing in the midrange like your car was or not. We should definitely get colder plugs in there, but so far I don't think it's not necessarily going to be that big of a difference with where we're at right now. Just a bit of a safety margin. Who knows?! Grr, this not being able to edit my own posts crap is REALLY annoying. More on the over-rich stuff, I've seen multiple times that these whiteblock motors and their tunes go icky rich and get blow-out or whatever it is(because of the richness? I don't know). On the dyno a good few times in videos and in person too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bondo Posted March 27, 2010 Report Share Posted March 27, 2010 Platinums are a no-no on any turbo car. I have run BKR7EIX in my car - they're ok. Run them if you don't have any coppers. Honestly BKR7E is the plug to run, though. Hussein how does it feel having timing back in the double digits? Good? EGT's lower? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NChoy Posted March 27, 2010 Report Share Posted March 27, 2010 Platinums are a no-no on any turbo car. I have run BKR7EIX in my car - they're ok. Run them if you don't have any coppers. Honestly BKR7E is the plug to run, though. Hussein how does it feel having timing back in the double digits? Good? EGT's lower? Are the BKR7E one step colder than the stock NGK plugs? I'm going to pick up a set on the way to the dyno tomorrow... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bondo Posted March 27, 2010 Report Share Posted March 27, 2010 Yep 1 step colder. I'd definitely give them a go. Gap them on the tight side. Nothing worse than having blowout on the dyno. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NChoy Posted March 27, 2010 Report Share Posted March 27, 2010 Yep 1 step colder. I'd definitely give them a go. Gap them on the tight side. Nothing worse than having blowout on the dyno. define "tight" just so I know my boundaries... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bondo Posted March 27, 2010 Report Share Posted March 27, 2010 If you plan on less than 20psi I'd gap to around 0.025", if you plan on trying more than that and are having some blowout now I'd gap to around 0.022". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klr142 Posted March 27, 2010 Report Share Posted March 27, 2010 Platinums are a no-no on any turbo car. I have run BKR7EIX in my car - they're ok. Run them if you don't have any coppers. Honestly BKR7E is the plug to run, though. Hussein how does it feel having timing back in the double digits? Good? EGT's lower? Platinums are stock in some of the latest cars and what we use on all 99+ turbo cars in the shop... We use the iridiums in the -98 turbos. I agree that we should be using BKR7Es right now, as we aren't necessarily looking for plug longevity right now and I'd rather not try adjusting the gap on the tiny electrode Iridiums... Are the BKR7E one step colder than the stock NGK plugs? I'm going to pick up a set on the way to the dyno tomorrow... Good idear. Stock heat range is 6, 7 is one step colder in NGK speak. So yeah, grab some of those, and I can bring my gapper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bondo Posted March 27, 2010 Report Share Posted March 27, 2010 Having personally seen the aftermath of a platinum electrode breaking off in a combustion chamber, I'll pass. The benefit vs the risk is a terrible wager imo. You're on the right track anyways. Buy cheap copper plugs, gap them, change them when they wear out. It's a project car, not an appliance where the only goal is to pop the good as few times as possible over the course of a year. If you want that, buy platinum plugs and a stock beige toyota corolla to match them. :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCviggen Posted March 27, 2010 Report Share Posted March 27, 2010 The benefit vs the risk is a terrible wager imo. You're on the right track anyways. Buy cheap copper plugs, gap them, change them when they wear out. + eleventy. I run cheap champion coppers and they run great. And they actually don't even seem to wear much, I used to change them every 10K miles or so out of boredom and because they are so cheap, now a little more often as the car only does 6 or 7K miles a year. Iridium/platinum is BS for turbo cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted March 27, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2010 Hussein how does it feel having timing back in the double digits? Good? EGT's lower? Hard to say, really. It was so rich overall on the first ten runs, I wasn't paying much attention . Honestly, it really seems to like to run in the high 12's-13's - I seem to get more timing & a crisper feel. I think the EGT's were a little higher - this map has much more timing vs fuel than previous maps. Not as much power overall, but considering how much less boost I'm running, it does feel pretty good.. this is the map 4.2-7.2K from 56% on up Fuel Map The biggest issue really, is figuring out where the switch from full load to WOT settings fall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johann Posted March 27, 2010 Report Share Posted March 27, 2010 Having personally seen the aftermath of a platinum electrode breaking off in a combustion chamber, I'll pass. Platinum or Iridium? Can happen with any plug, Iridium appears to be more common. Can happen with valves also so don't use valves anymore? Platinum can be found in nearly every Volvo since 1999 or so. I don't see a risk, should call it bad luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bondo Posted March 27, 2010 Report Share Posted March 27, 2010 If you want to buy a more expensive plug that offers no performance advantage other than longevity, and is difficult to gap, fill your boots. The fact that it's used for OEM means all of absolutely nothing when it comes to tuning the motors to 1.5-2x their original specific output. The pressures temperatures involved, especially if detonation occurs, can be an order of magnitude higher. It will be rare to hear any competent tuner recommend anything but copper for a highly boosted app. Cheap, reliable, consistent, proven. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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