swc75 Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 http://www.marketwatch.com/story/tax-the-super-rich-now-or-face-a-revolution-2011-03-29 What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfishing3 Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 Trickle down economics It's easier to pull funding from teachers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burn-E Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 http://www.marketwat...tion-2011-03-29 What do you think? He's either an idiot and totally unaware of how heavy reliance on the wealthy 1% impacts a State and Federal government's ability to reliably cover their debts OR he's writing it in an attack on his fellow banksters to get back at them. See this article, also from the WSJ, to understand my point. It's one of the reasons why California and Illinois for instance are facing huge budgetary crunches after the economic downturn. Want to solve the problem? Take a machete to the budgets and accept the initial pain it will inflict. The economy in the middle class has shifted heavily to public payrolls and that needs to be shifted back to a production / service economy that actually produces revenues and profits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volvotool Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 Want to solve the problem? Take a machete to the budgets and accept the initial pain it will inflict. Please cite one historical instance where this has worked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swc75 Posted April 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2011 Discuss... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burn-E Posted April 8, 2011 Report Share Posted April 8, 2011 Please cite one historical instance where this has worked. Can't because no one has really been brave enough to do what needs to be done. Are you proposing we spend our way out of this problem? Budgets and programs have to be scaled back - and I don't care which just so long as it's done in a manner that brings the budget back into line with realistic revenue expectations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volvotool Posted April 8, 2011 Report Share Posted April 8, 2011 Can't because no one has really been brave enough to do what needs to be done. Are you proposing we spend our way out of this problem? Budgets and programs have to be scaled back - and I don't care which just so long as it's done in a manner that brings the budget back into line with realistic revenue expectations. You need to look a bit harder. It was tried during the Great Depression by Hoover and failed. It took WWII and the WPA to bring the country back. It's being tried in Ireland right now with no success and the British are trying it, too, though the civil resistance there is proving to be a real obstacle. Our "revenue expectations" would be much better if some people would pay their fair share of the tax burden. Unless you're proposing that no taxes is a fair burden for some people....? Anyway, the GOP/TP is on the record for wanting to starve the government and now they're trying to do it, so pretending this is about a "balanced budget" is patently ludicrous. I think the power grab is a classic case of over-reach, but time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burn-E Posted April 8, 2011 Report Share Posted April 8, 2011 You need to look a bit harder. It was tried during the Great Depression by Hoover and failed. It took WWII and the WPA to bring the country back. It's being tried in Ireland right now with no success and the British are trying it, too, though the civil resistance there is proving to be a real obstacle. Our "revenue expectations" would be much better if some people would pay their fair share of the tax burden. Unless you're proposing that no taxes is a fair burden for some people....? Anyway, the GOP/TP is on the record for wanting to starve the government and now they're trying to do it, so pretending this is about a "balanced budget" is patently ludicrous. I think the power grab is a classic case of over-reach, but time will tell. What you mean we should expect the bottom 50% to pay taxes? Because yeah, I question whether anyone should get a tax break in that case. Everyone should be paying their fair share. Actually, I'm intimately familiar with the Hoover experiment. My Grandfather was his personal physician so I have greater insight to the realities of what Hoover did than most. The nuances of what Hoover did and what actually caused the failure during the 30's are deeper than Ben Bernanke's "Essays on the Great Depression" might lead you to believe. The myths and misinformation that most people learn in High School and College about the Great Depression could fill dozens of text books. Oh wait, they already do. You're failing to consider that the current crisis has as a foundation that we built up our budgetary expenditures during two decades of high flying markets and grossly inflated expectations of future revenues. Look, I think Clinton was a great President but this lie about a balanced budget is perpetuated without anyone considering that the key to the budget actually staying balanced was the revenues continuing to grow under a bubble economy. There was no "foundation" to their projections because there was no foundation to the market growth they were based on. That W decided to then go blow a trillion dollars on escalating one necessary (Afghanistan) and one unnecessary (Iraq) wars didn't exactly help things either. But then Obama's to blame as well for not ratcheting down hard on the banksters and ensuring that we're not going to face this same situation with even further emboldened investors who will expect to be bailed out yet again. You want to solve the Wall Street problem? Send Mack and Stumpf and Pandit (lying bastard) and Ken Lewis (even bigger lying bastard) and Jamie Dimon (most corrupt of the bunch) and Lloyd Blankfein (head of the blood sucking vampire squid) and Kelly and Logue and especially Cassano from AIG all to pound me in the ass prison for just 12 months and see if that doesn't change the attitude on the Street. There's no question they deserve worse than that. Further, we were a nation of debtors who were living well beyond our means due to extraordinary speculation...er irrational exuberance to quote one who is among those most explicitly to blame for this fiasco. So, if you and I and every other average Joe out there has ratcheted down our spending in the face of a new reality there is no reason the government shouldn't do the same. Want to throw out the tax holidays that every corporation out there is enjoying? I say go right ahead. They should be paying their fair share. But if you're saying you want to ratchet up the taxes on the wealthy 1% then you're falling into the trap of higher and more variable peaks and valleys that have stung the largest States in the Union. I'm all for a fairer tax basis, but let's actually do it rather than compromising it away into a husk of what really needs to be done. Government needs to spend, sure, but there is so much bloat in what it spends right now that there should be no question that the budgets need to be right sized and the priorities for spending need to be reset. So, still disagree with me? Of course you need government spending in the time of economic dysfunction but you need the right kind of spending - the kind that will actually improve the economic fundamentals. That's my point. And the Republicans are grandstanding and so are the Democrats. I'm old enough to recall with precise clarity the circumstances under which the government last shut down and I'll tell you right now, neither side is going to get what they think they will out of this. I'm a Liberal with a big L - the honest kind of Conservative. I have no idea what the two current Parties really stand for anymore but the patch of ground they're really squabbling over is extraordinarily narrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volvotool Posted April 8, 2011 Report Share Posted April 8, 2011 You want to solve the Wall Street problem? Send Mack and Stumpf and Pandit (lying bastard) and Ken Lewis (even bigger lying bastard) and Jamie Dimon (most corrupt of the bunch) and Lloyd Blankfein (head of the blood sucking vampire squid) and Kelly and Logue and especially Cassano from AIG all to pound me in the ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD prison for just 12 months and see if that doesn't change the attitude on the Street. There's no question they deserve worse than that. Well, I certainly agree with this part, at the very least. It's still jaw-dropping that so many conservatives think Obama is a "Socialist" after he invited the Wall Street crooks who caused the meltdown onto his cabinet to help "fix" the economy. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot if you'll pardon my NATO phonetics. I'm a big-picture guy, and the big picture here is that it matters poke all if a Democrat or a Republican is in the White House so long as corporate money continues to so thoroughly corrupt our politics as it does today. Obama is not so significantly different than Bush, once you get past skin color and public speaking ability. So, if you and I and every other average Joe out there has ratcheted down our spending in the face of a new reality there is no reason the government shouldn't do the same. Fair enough. But what programs need to be cut? I can't help but notice as the budget showdown looms, that the GOP/TP beast is going after abortion funding and planned parenthood, which shows two things: 1) They're not serious about trimming the budget. 2) This is about political ideology for them. Let's trim some from the real "welfare queens:" The DOD, big Pharma, Agribusiness subsidies, etc.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swc75 Posted April 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2011 Well, I certainly agree with this part, at the very least. It's still jaw-dropping that so many conservatives think Obama is a "Socialist" after he invited the Wall Street crooks who caused the meltdown onto his cabinet to help "fix" the economy. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot if you'll pardon my NATO phonetics. I'm a big-picture guy, and the big picture here is that it matters f*ck all if a Democrat or a Republican is in the White House so long as corporate money continues to so thoroughly corrupt our politics as it does today. Obama is not so significantly different than Bush, once you get past skin color and public speaking ability. Fair enough. But what programs need to be cut? I can't help but notice as the budget showdown looms, that the GOP/TP beast is going after abortion funding and planned parenthood, which shows two things: 1) They're not serious about trimming the budget. 2) This is about political ideology for them. Let's trim some from the real "welfare queens:" The DOD, big Pharma, Agribusiness subsidies, etc.. ^ This is a start, but IMHO, It will never happen in this climate. Obama, an incumbent presidential candidate needs to raise a billion dollars for his presidential campaign? Give me (and you ) a break! This is not a democracy, this is a Feudal state, with most of of slobs being surfs. Talk about corruption in the govt in Afgansistan? It is more corrupt here in Florida, alone! Maybe, we the citizens of this country, deserve this crap. IDK how it can change, until we have Remove the electoral college. Institute Direct Popular Elections of candidates whom are funded by public funding, maybe a poll tax of say $20.00 per voter for presidential elections ( just a concept to start with) Bring back Paul VolKker, Get rid of that FERRET Geitner he would be a good spotter for NATO Airstrikes in Libya, and he can pack his own parachute, I'm sure Paulson taught him how.. Manditory voting by citizens, Civics classes for school children No corporate funding or PACs what so ever] Send the Koch brothers on the plane with Geitner, too. End of rant for now. Comic aside "If you're helpless, we'll help you. If you're clueless, well, you're on your own" Dennis Miller Dennis Miller IDK how but at least start an audit of the Federal Reserve, DOD, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matchbox22 Posted April 9, 2011 Report Share Posted April 9, 2011 the only way to straighten out this country is for the people to rise up and take to the streets and remove every last one of them bloodsuckers. Remove term life from the Supreme court judges,politicians only should have no more than two turns then get the heck out. How come he Pres. only can have two terms but congressmen get to be there forever as long they're voted back in. Why not a receipt for my vote, instead they tell you Joe Blow won but no one can prove who voted for him. This crack house is getting to be the have and the have nots, each President is just a puppet and his job is the put in laws or amend them for future crimes against their our people. Please find me a politician who have a son or daughter fighting in one of the two wars or the 600million bomb party? So where did they get that money from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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