Kashif Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 QUOTE(BeachRat @ Jan 13 2005, 02:47 AM)QUOTE(Kashif @ Jan 12 2005, 11:08 PM)QUOTEU.S. doesn't hold a candle to killing civilians when it comes to Stalin, Hitler, Mao and others who have racked up a body count of over 100 millionWhat about the countless millions of native americans that where murdered and "relocated" to "special" reservations?Oooh oooh or the "relocation" of Japanese Americans during WWII. I don't believe any were killed, but don't tell me stripping you of your home, your job, and all your possessions for the simple reason that you knew the language of the Enemy is acceptable. We didn't exactly do it to every German family, why the Japanese? Because they were much easier to profile! We're as guilty as any other country, we just didn't leave as big a mess.quick, name the president and party he represented that invented these camps. anyone? if you want to get more history, name the president and the party he represented who drove the indians out of the southeast. anyone? name the president and the party he represented who basically gave up poland at potsdam and left the polish out to dry for 60 years behind the iron curtain? name the president and the party he represented who got us into vietnam. name the president and party he represented who knowingly hired communist spies in the state department. anyone? one final thing, name the president and the party he represented under whom slavery was brought to an end in the united states. anyone? name the president and the party he represented who brought an end to the vietnam war and brought the troops home under a peace agreement. anyone? name the president and the party he represented under whom the cold war was brought to an end. anyone?Wasn't that quote refering to the U.S. and it's similarities with other nations, and not party affiliations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyby Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Pleae don't tell me that the entire eastern seaboard of the United States was not completely terrified to go outside for fear of being shot by John Muhammed back in 2003. He "only" killed a dozen people or so, yet he TERRIFIED 20 million people for a month.-Dana←And yet, as the famous Michael Moore would say "there is no terrorist threat". People weren't scared that the terrorists were going to attack. Wanna know why? Because we took the war to their soil, it's called a preemptive strike. If we had that when Hitler started flexing his muscles, I think something would have been different.There is no telling what chaos may have ensued if Bush had not decided to do what he did.Oh, and all the white people that you listed... They weren't all part of a cohesive group, that's why we don't profile them.Muslims are not bad - Muslim EXTREMISTS are. (It is a totally different thing). Muslims do not believe in the extremists actions. Hell, the extremists are profiled by Muslims! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ontheheel Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Wasn't that quote refering to the U.S. and it's similarities with other nations, and not party affiliations?←you are absolutley right, which is why i put that one paragraph disclaimer at the end of my post just trying to kick a bull in the nuts here for entertainment, thats all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
80GT Posted February 12, 2005 Report Share Posted February 12, 2005 “We will put terror into the hearts of the unbelievers. They serve other gods for whom no sanction is revealed. Hell shall be their home.” ~ The Imrans; Sura 3:150.“Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal harshly with them.” ~ Repentance; Sura 9:123.“Let the unbelievers not think they will escape Us. They have not the power to do so. Muster against them all the men and cavalry at your disposal, so that you may strike terror into the enemies of Allah and the faithful, and others beside them. All that you give for the cause of Allah shall be repaid you.” ~ The Spoils; Sura 8:60.Please, tell me how--with quotes and evidence--Islam is a loving, peaceful religion. I'm tired of people twisting reality, and quoting their favorite interest groups, implying that it is of their own thought. Just read the beliefs of Islam, and you will see that it truly is a hateful, violent religion. Also, where do you draw the line between extremists and the 'true believers'? How can you possibly make that distinction by just meeting, talking to, or seeing a Muslim? I am completely for the freedom to practice your own religion as it's spelled out in the first amendment, but the first amendment isn't a free pass to do whatever you wish. If a religion is threatening to the well-being of a people, and compromises that people's safety, the correct action should be taken.Wrongful profiling is, for example, when something is stolen and people immediately will blame a minority group like Mexicans or Blacks. These thoughts are totally based on personal convictions and perceptions of a race. Warranted profiling, however, is searching those of an Arab/Muslim decent when they attempt to board an airplane or take a train. Is is better to be precautious and safe, than to be politically correct. I do understand that these people would become annoyed, and possibly upset with this, but what's more important? Are we to comprimise safety precausions, just so we don't hurt anyone's feelings and encroach their 'freedoms'? I have a Jordanian friend who after 9/11 was always searched when he travelled. He didn't mind though, because he respected the concern of our country. He also was not a Muslim, and knew firsthand the malicious potential of Islam.You can quote anyone you want, or say what you will, but the beliefs of Islam are in the Koran. If someone doesn't follow the commands of the Koran, then they aren't a devout believer. Now the question is, who are the 'true believers'? Aren't those who take the Bible as it is written and follow it 'true believers'? So what does that make Muslims who obey the Koran as it is written? So, think about who the true followers of Muhammad are... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kashif Posted February 12, 2005 Report Share Posted February 12, 2005 (edited) Just read the beliefs of Islam, and you will see that it truly is a hateful, violent religion.This can be read as blant Islamaphobic, I am a Muslim any all of your quotes were out of context. The first quote was the Lord speaking to muslims when they were defending themselves from being wiped out. For the second verse there is no Sura 9:123, Sura 9 or Chapter 9 only has 122 verses!The third quote was telling muslims how to defend themselve from attack.None of these quote if read in proper context justify the use of violence to convert or take over other people's land.A main tenet in Islam is "There is no complusion in religion" If someone claiming to be a muslim state that you must convert or die then they themselves are not a muslim.People ask where are the moderate muslims, how come they don't speak out. Well here I am, I am speaking out against terrorism, and it's evil. Pure and simple.I get profiled every time I fly but you know it does not bother me. All I want is to get from point A to point B safely. The more security the better, but please don't slander an entire group just because of a few.If you have questions about Islam please feel free to state them. I am sure myself or other muslims in your community will happly answer them. Edited February 12, 2005 by Kashif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
80GT Posted February 12, 2005 Report Share Posted February 12, 2005 Thank you for correcting me on the context of the passages. I'm not an Islamaphobic person, I just have questions. There are so many general commands about violence towards infidels/unbelievers, it's hard for me to believe that they only refer to a particular group of people, each group being unique to each context. These two terms are used over and over again in these commands, and there doesn't seem to be a 'new law', as in Christianity, which repeals old commands.I am glad that the searches don't bother you too much. That makes me glad to hear of someone who is willing to accept this. I myself would get upset with constantly being searched, but I would accept it and move on as you do. I am also glad that you are open to discussion, and I do have questions. Can you explain the repeated orders to kill infidels, and the commands of really vile actions? One verse says, "When you meet the unbelievers in jihad, chop off their heads." When is jihad initiated, and on what grounds? Who makes this decision? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kashif Posted February 12, 2005 Report Share Posted February 12, 2005 WellThe term unbeliever is usually for people who were pagans or people who believe in more in one God. Christains and Jewish people have a special term in the Quran, they are called "the people of the Book". The Lord in the Quran also states to Muslims that when you speak to "the people of the Book" speak to them softly and not harshly.In fact there are verses in the Quran that speak about the true Christains as your brothers. If you look at history and during the time before and after the cruasades Christains, Jews and Muslims have lived peacefully, When Islam controlled the Middle East, North Africa, Spain, Sicily, India, Eastern China and South Asia.One verse says, "When you meet the unbelievers in jihad, chop off their heads."You'll have to be more specific then this. I need the chapter and verse number to properly address this question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ontheheel Posted February 13, 2005 Report Share Posted February 13, 2005 i don't know how peaceful the period right before the crusades were. constantinople didn't fare so well. neither did the Christians living in jerusalem right before the crusades. a long time before, they did live peacefully with the Muslims and Jews, but the crusades didn't happen in a vacuum. i'm not saying that the crusades were justified from a theological standpoint by any stretch, just saying that there were things that led for the Christians in jerusalem to call for help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kashif Posted February 13, 2005 Report Share Posted February 13, 2005 (edited) There might have been some trouble before the Crusades but I don't think the response that Muslims recieved during the crusades justified the mass slaugther that happened during that time period. Edited February 13, 2005 by Kashif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ontheheel Posted February 14, 2005 Report Share Posted February 14, 2005 which is exactly what i said in my post. i wasn't trying to justify the crusades by any stretch, i was merely pointing out that there were some pretty nasty decapitations and other things done to the Christians in north africa, middle east, and eastern europe that led up to the crusades. i am not claiming innocence for the Catholic church, but i wont deny the culpability of the Muslims, either. both Catholicism and Islam have changed quite a bit since then, so don't take what i say as directed at you personally. advancing religion by the sword was the status quo of that time. apparently the papacy had forgotten about shaking off the dust from your feet or turning the other cheek for the sake of the gospel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kashif Posted February 14, 2005 Report Share Posted February 14, 2005 so don't take what i say as directed at you personally.Don't worry I don't blow things out of proportion. I understand your point and it is valid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s40euro Posted February 14, 2005 Report Share Posted February 14, 2005 When you think about the Islam which country come in mind ??Most probably, Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.And may be you know or do not know there are some denominations in the Islamic Religion.And the Saudi`s are (commonly) from Wahhabi denomination and they are the extremist ones.They (Wahhabis) also murdered or enslaved more then 100.000 muslims.Kashif correct me if I am wrongBurakAnd check the page for some extra information.http://www.ahle-sunnat.org.uk/WAHABI.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kashif Posted February 14, 2005 Report Share Posted February 14, 2005 S40 euroI am not a Wahhabi but again I don't think you can generalize an entire group, I know a few Wahhabis and they are not the boogi man that the media seems to make them out. I think the real problem is the fundamentalist Kings and princes of Saudi. They abuse their power and promote fundamentalism just keep the status quo and keep themselves in power. They are the real problem that needs to be corrected by the citizens of Arabia. Heck they named the country after themselves after they took power back in the 20's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s40euro Posted February 15, 2005 Report Share Posted February 15, 2005 S40 euroI am not a Wahhabi but again I don't think you can generalize an entire group, I know a few Wahhabis and they are not the boogi man that the media seems to make them out. I think the real problem is the fundamentalist Kings and princes of Saudi. They abuse their power and promote fundamentalism just keep the status quo and keep themselves in power. They are the real problem that needs to be corrected by the citizens of Arabia. Heck they named the country after themselves after they took power back in the 20's.←As English is not my native laguage sometimes I cannot explain what was in my mind.You summerized the thoughts in my mind which i could not put in words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karlson Posted February 16, 2005 Report Share Posted February 16, 2005 no one mentioned chechens(muslims) They are getting money from countries are like saudi arabia and etcthey killed almost 5,000 innocent Russian people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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