ErikS Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 Agreed on mitt My fear is Obama wins the Popular vote but losses the electoral college vote But you would be less afraid if the opposite happened Mike? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfishing3 Posted November 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 Not really I want Obama to win based on who I believe the REP offering will be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pops Racer Posted November 14, 2011 Report Share Posted November 14, 2011 (edited) Really? You think Obama will do LESS damage if given 4 more years? REALLY? Your a sensible man, do you really like what s been done the last 3. 5 yrs? If your party loyalties and dislikes trump what is good for the country self analysis is in order. I long for Clinton right now... These folks are just way too European leftist for my liking. Its not about him, its about his czars, regulators, Cabinet heads, and court appointments. And his penchant for executive orders that kill growth. You approve of his meddling in the free market and choosing winners and losers by govt fiat? SOLYNDRA AND OTHERS? Green subsidies in Spain are really working well...not. And killing the latest pipeline deal was genius... If a Republican president was where this overwhelmed, inexperienced street radical was the press would be killing him and it would be a walk next November. Its amazing to me that this bastard even has a chance. With Joe Biden around his neck to boot...sad, folks cant admit the experiment went horribly wrong, and would further wreck shit just to be 'winners'. Its not whats right for America to these ideologues, its about THEM being right. Neener-neener-neener... Sound bite city, Video game mentalities and pop culture icons. popularity and style trump substance and ideas. Nothing will change and the DC behemoth will continue to ingest huge portions of the private sector capital. Edited November 14, 2011 by Pops Racer 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCviggen Posted November 14, 2011 Report Share Posted November 14, 2011 (edited) These folks are just way too European leftist for my liking. Do you know what "left" is Pops? By any European definition of left the current democrat administration in the US is pretty far to the right. Hell there's "right" politicians in Europe that are more left than Obama. You have to be pretty far off-the-cliff to the right to have that kind of perspective. It's centrist at the most (not saying that's a good thing or that they are doing a good job mind you) Edited November 14, 2011 by JCviggen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pops Racer Posted November 14, 2011 Report Share Posted November 14, 2011 (edited) Its all relative to where you stand. Nazi is far right, I aint no Nazi. And you dont have the document I swore to uphold against all enemies foreign and domestic. The Constitution has been stretched and molded to fit, that's the real problem. Without that discussion first your just all pissing in the wind. Start by seeing how the 'welfare clause' has been bent to grow entitlements or the 'commerce clause' manipulated so the Fed has jurisdiction over states rights usurping the 10th Amendment. And of course the ' establishment clause' that has been perverted to deny religion in the public forum, when it was clearly written to deny govt the power to establish a state chosen religion. And the power expansion of the Executive branch allowing regulation czars to by pass Congress with law making. Or the use of the courts to defeat majority votes by activist minority factions. Loose interpretations of the base document have lead to a huge centrist system filled with greed, graft, inefficiency, red tape and apathy. The scale has tipped, the definitions have slid. Centrist in USA can easily be called a right wing nut by Obamas kids. A Democrat from 1955 would be considered a fascist. We used to be independent self sufficient individuals, whose combined power created a great civilization. Now we are slaves to govt handouts and power mongers. Nanny states make babies that need nursing to the grave. See Greece, Spain, Italy, Portugal...et al. I'm sorry if your ethnocentric position cant let you see what America should be and was. Its not whats in your minds eye I can assure you. Edited November 14, 2011 by Pops Racer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCviggen Posted November 14, 2011 Report Share Posted November 14, 2011 (edited) Only saying Pops, that your "European leftist" politicians still have a long way to go before they can match the leftness of the actual European left You wouldn't BELIEVE how left it can get Also, I think your tendency to blame everything wrong with the country on the person currently "in charge" is a bit of a stretch. Sure if Obama had it his way and his way alone he could probably piss you off even more, but you have to accept the reality that any "electable" politician could become president tomorrow and not much is going to change. Except your perception of it perhaps. Edited November 14, 2011 by JCviggen 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fudge_Brownie Posted November 14, 2011 Report Share Posted November 14, 2011 Also, I think your tendency to blame everything wrong with the country on the person currently "in charge" is a bit of a stretch. Its not about him, its about his czars, regulators, Cabinet heads, and court appointments. And his penchant for executive orders that kill growth. We used to be independent self sufficient individuals, whose combined power created a great civilization. Now we are slaves to govt handouts and power mongers. Nanny states make babies that need nursing to the grave. See Greece, Spain, Italy, Portugal...et al. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pops Racer Posted November 15, 2011 Report Share Posted November 15, 2011 (edited) I'm actually, after 30 some odd years of giving a shit, shedding much of my naivete. I'm obviously an idealist. But I live as best I can by those ideals. I am not fooled by party labels. These guys are all asshats, but so am I and so are you. What I'm saying is there is no perfect person/ candidate. I support policies, ideas, and actions. So my goal is no more Obama. Stop that train first, then we can discuss upgrades in leadership from there. Again, my opinions and positions are what they are. The experiment of centralization and collectivism has 110 yr record of failure, disaster and death. My way has created the greatest civilization in the history of the world. You opinion may vary. Utopia doesn't exist, and taxing me to death to get there cant work. I know full well of Europe's hard left. Its going to be your downfall, as any sovereignty or national identity erodes from the lack of assimilation of immigrants, cultural norms, disappearing 'religioustity' and collective failure of the European markets. When you give up your currency you have taken the first step. The concepts of morale relativism and social justice are incentive killers, and is compounded by govts willingness to redistribute wealth to foster those dogmas is a downward spiral with no inertial braking system. Oh wait that sounds like whats happening here... I could go on about how weak Europe is militarily (Germany's complete armed forces is about the same size as our USMC). We are picking up that tab too. So you couldn't even defend yourself from USSR (its is still intact by the way, just re-branded and downsized), with out another countries aide. I guess I did go on huh? But I digress,... I like using that term lol, cuz I often do. Its simple. Unless I see a serious attempt to cut spending, I mean a painful cut, dont even think of asking me for more of my money. As far as transparency and embedded graft, read this, it will make you ill. Incest and nepotism, payolla, back scratching, insider deals and creative accounting... K Street’s super splurge The bipartisan debt panel to nowhere is exactly where K Street lobbyists want it to be: hopelessly deadlocked. A Nov. 23 deadline for agreement on $1.2 trillion in budget savings is looming, but no real reductions in the size, scope or spending of government are on the table. Instead, we are witnessing another obscene special-interest splurge to preserve the status quo. All in the name of “reform,” of course. The only thing “super” about the so-called budget-control super committee is the size of lobbying muscle exerted on its members. Almost 100 registered lobbyists who are former employees of super-committee members are now “representing defense companies, health-care conglomerates, Wall Street banks and others with a vested interest in the outcome of the panel’s work,” The Washington Post found in September. This includes two dozen former staffers to Sen. Max Baucus, D-Mont., including three former chiefs of staff. On the other side of the revolving door, 10 of the panel’s 12 members have now raked in donations from foreign registered agents totaling more than $50,000 in direct campaign contributions during 2011 alone, according to government watchdogs. The additional amount raised through fundraisers held by these lobbying firms is unknown, according to the Project on Government Oversight. Moreover, all 12 super-committee members have been contacted by foreign lobbyists, eager to secure targeted exemptions, loopholes and protectionism. Sen. Patty Murray, D-Wash., the super-committee co-chair who refused to step down from her fundraising duties as head of the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee, recently met with South Korean lobbyists employed by D.C. powerhouse firm Patton Boggs. Roll Call reported that while the panel’s negotiations wouldn’t have direct bearing on free-trade deals, Murray “could have access to information about how the timing of the debt deliberations could affect passage of the free-trade agreements.” Murray’s in-your-face embrace of influence peddlers has her populist Pacific Northwest constituents cringing. Mind you: Murray’s office boasts no fewer than 17 revolving-door staffers turned lobbyists. That’s on top of her DSCC fundraising conflicts of interest. This week, the Seattle Times disclosed that Murray held a two-day staff retreat at heavyweight lobbying outfit Strategies 360, which was founded by Democratic political operative Ron Dotzauer. The group donated meeting space to Murray’s team and skirted ethics rules by offering similar deals to nonprofits. Murray’s former deputy state director, Karen Waters, is now a senior vice president at the firm. Another of its lobbyists, Melanie Mihara, used to work for Murray’s Democratic colleague Sen. Maria Cantwell. According to OpenSecrets.org, Strategies 360 has conducted $985,000 worth of lobbying targeting more than a dozen government agencies this year. A spokesman for the senator (who made her name attacking the Beltway insider culture) sniffed that the report was a “non-story.” Given Murray’s status as the second-highest recipient of lobbying money among all members of Congress behind Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, her staff is right: This little perk is chump change compared to her career haul. Lobbying, of course, is perfectly legal. It’s Murray’s pretense as a white hat public-interest crusader that should gall both sides of the aisle. One left-wing Seattle blogger rather generously called Murray “tone-deaf” and spelled out the rank hypocrisy of Murray’s entrenched and unrepentant lobbying ties: “This while members of her own party are up in arms over the increasing influence of money in American politics. This while a giant hunk of the liberal electorate is ‘Occupying’ the streets to protest corporate greed and disproportional representation. This while the very term ‘lobbyist’ has come to represent all that is bad about special-interest influence.” Yep, all that and a bag of backscratching chips. Murray’s backroom meetings come as business as usual, as House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi grandstands over the need for more “transparency” in the super-committee dealings. After ramming through Obamacare in secret (with the help of top staffer Brendan Daly, who is now a lobbyist for groups opposed to the law he helped pass), Pelosi has now called for televised debt-panel hearings. On publicly broadcasting the debt-panel members’ meetings with lobbyists, Pelosi no doubt remain mum. Michelle Malkin (malkinblog@gmail.com) is a syndicated columnist. Malkins editorial from today post. AND its happening on the other side of the aisle too. Depressing, status quo as usual. Edited November 15, 2011 by Pops Racer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCviggen Posted November 15, 2011 Report Share Posted November 15, 2011 (edited) My way has created the greatest civilization in the history of the world. Hmm. You opinion may vary. It probably does. Utopia doesn't exist Definitely. I know full well of Europe's hard left. Its going to be your downfall The biggest problem the developed world has, is that its political leaders care more about their own job than do what needs to be done. And that most people are too stupid to see through the whole "vote for me and I'll give you X" thing. That's what has gotten us all trillions and trillions in the hole. This has nothing to do with left or right, it's universal. govts willingness to redistribute wealth But in which direction is it being redistributed? Take the US for example. For the record I'm not one of those "occupy wall street" morons, but if there is anything the government over there has not been doing the last couple of decades, it's take from the "rich" and give to the" poor". I could go on about how weak Europe is militarily Not really relevant, and the last thing we need is a shitload of unnecessary spending on military nonsense. Not a very efficient sector really. We are picking up that tab too. So you couldn't even defend yourself from USSR I could point out some historical inaccuracies there, but I guess for you if it sounds right enough it must be true. (its is still intact by the way, just re-branded and downsized) It is anything but intact, Russia (the biggest part) doesn't get along with most of the ex soviet states currently. I should know, I live in Moscow now You'd like it here.....hardly any taxes, cheap petrol, filthy rich people all over the place and a guy in charge who doesn't take shit from anyone, but will happily protect his billionnaire semi/totally criminal business buddies in exchange for political support. Anyway, the potential to make money here is huge, which is what matters right? Unless I see a serious attempt to cut spending, I mean a painful cut, dont even think of asking me for more of my money Both painful cuts and more taxes are necessary, but that doesn't mean most people would actually have to pay more taxes. I read an interesting article on tax codes recently, and the main problem with the US one is how inefficient it is. Simple, no loopholes or other nonsense would go a long way to restoring balance without increasing any rates. In fact some rates need to come down and some should go up. There's the right way of taxing and the wrong way. K Street’s super splurge I'm not sure if quoting Michelle Malkin is helping your credibility, even if she were making some valid and factual points for a change I'd rather avoid crackpots like that. It's one of those preaching to the choir kind of things. Just because someone's saying something that sounds good to you, doesn't make it exactly true. The truth tends to be in the middle, so reading extreme left or extreme right biased assholes is a monumental waste of time and intellect. Although, if you soak yourself in biased rubbish for long enough, even things that are not biased for a change will automatically appear to be of opposite bias. Fascinating really. I'm afraid you might be at that stage now. And really I'm not saying that I don't agree with some things you or even Malkin are saying, it's just that I can't stand facts being coated with this disgusting sticky bias intended to suspend rational thought and kill braincells. Edited November 15, 2011 by JCviggen 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pops Racer Posted November 16, 2011 Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 (edited) I'm not worried about my credibility. If she's crackpot then here isnt an honest journalist in the world. You once again have shown intolerance for opposing view points ,and a snobbish ideal that you and your opinions are absolute...typical of the left. So be it...oh never mind its like talking to a post sometimes. You do speak the truth about taxation, I'm all for closing personal and corporate loopholes, flat tax and everyone should pay... I will now take my customary 6 month break from this forum to lower my blood pressure. Keep dreaming bro, when the Euro collapses PM me. The Zombie Apocalypse cant get here fast enough...I know how to kill zombies... Edited November 16, 2011 by Pops Racer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCviggen Posted November 18, 2011 Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 typical of the left. That's what I'm trying to tell you, you're so far off to the right that pretty much everything that isn't seems very left to you. I haven't voted left even once in my life. Then again, even the right in europe might be too left for you. Euro wise I don't care what it does, I don't get paid in Euros but if it does implode then everybody gets screwed whether you're in Europe or not. The same thing could happen to the dollar and we'd all be screwed as well. The world is one big place now and nobody's safe. About Malkin...seriously lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikS Posted November 18, 2011 Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 The world is one big place now and nobody's safe. That's a hard pill for most Americans to swallow, as our politicians will tell us the inputs and outputs of the American economy are somehow insular to the US, and some magical bill or stimulus isolated to our own economy is the answer, when really its the recognition that the globally interconnected world economy has created the "1%". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithwicks Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 The bipartisan debt panel to nowhere is exactly where K Street lobbyists want it to be: hopelessly deadlocked. A Nov. 23 deadline for agreement on $1.2 trillion in budget savings is looming, but no real reductions in the size, scope or spending of government are on the table. Instead, we are witnessing another obscene special-interest splurge to preserve the status quo. Well I guess you were right, nothing at all happened. I wonder if this failure will spark people to actually look outside the two major parties or at least change up dramatically whose in Congress...but probably not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pops Racer Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 And I'll be amotherfucher, the Euro almost did collapse. Couple more days and JCViggen would be sending me a PM... Hows it feel to bail out Europe, by printing more US Dollars, that will increase the cost of everything you buy? And they got a 1.5% discount in the swap! Yeah I'm a right wing wacko all right...jeeze man, your so far left in your ideology I truly believe you think I am a Fascist. Problem is there are 200 million Americans just like me. Oh and Belgium cant even get on the same language. The parliament or whatever you call it, is divided between French speaking factions and Dutch speaking. And are getting bailed out. Without plans to fix what got em here. You know what, I thought the US was screwed... thread completely derailed thank you very much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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