Are You Better Off Now?

[mmetz]

sad to say I'm the first on here to admit that i'm worse off now than I was four years ago...

... OH, WAIT... NO I'M NOT! hahaha.... seriously, what do those numbers have to do with the price of tea and it's affect of mustard seed growth...

someone who started this post obviously has issues and feels they're all a result of the Bush adminstration. I hope this individual excersized their right to vote, because whining about inaccurate numbers for the next four years is a fantastic solution <_<

[matt1122]

More likely the person who started this post likes to whine.

[freeskier8585]

im better off... so suck it

[v70XXXc]

i am definitely NOT better off. 4 years ago i was living in New York City, not making much money, but my only expenses were rent and beer. i am making more money now, but it has not kept pace with inflation. and i don't care about the price of milk, i'm talking housing prices and gas prices, because they effect everything. now i am married and looking for a house in the stratosphericly expensive NYC metro area and there is nothing a young couple can get into. i'm just hoping i can lock in a low interest rate before the govenment has to start borrowing to pay off the record deficit were are running.

i'm not blaming anyone, but myself.

[ontheheel]

my family is worse off financially to a certain degree. since my dad is a pilot, he took a huge hit after 9-11, and things slowed down for us a whole lot. but now, as the pay cut has been sliced in half, and the stock market is doing much better, we are in pretty good financial shape. the pay cut reduction has mainly been the reason for that. the tax cuts have also been very helpful in mantaining lifestyle. hes planning on retiring in about three years when he turns 55, or maybe sooner, depending upon what the company does, and what the stock market does. so all this didn't push retirement back at all.

also, keep in mind that the stock market was a bit over inflated right before bush took office (dot com bubble anyone?). that started to tank somewhere within 30 days of the election.

[theunderlord]

The bottom line here is kids (and I have an econ degree remember) is that the traditional business cycle didn't hold true to form for the 1990's, and then just like ontheheel said, the bottom fell out, which had NOTHING to do with who was in the oval office. So as of the early 2000's we are just moving along again on the more traditional business cycle, will it model itself closely to the way is has usually looked since post WWII? Only time will tell.

point being, the president gets far too much credit when the economy is doing well, and far too much blame when it isn't.

[WhiteT5]

I'm all in favour of a weak dollar. Makes buying volvo parts cheaper for me!

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Weak dollar sucks big time for us when we need to buy parts. Especially since the dollar is as weak as Donald Trump's hair against the Euro and the Krona.

Me, I'm sure as hell worse off, but it probably has more to do w/ the whole "college is making me poor and ramen is really starting to get old" thing than anything else.

[Dana]

someone who started this post obviously has issues and feels they're all a result of the Bush adminstration. I hope this individual excersized their right to vote, because whining about inaccurate numbers for the next four years is a fantastic solution 

That comment serves no purpose in this debate, so I will not address it.

More likely the person who started this post likes to whine.

This one either.

I see that I'm not going to be able to actually debate things in an adult fashion without having people attacking me personally.

-Dana

[Dana]

One more thing: How old were you guys 4 years ago?

-Dana

[Che'_Moderator]

One more thing: How old were you guys 4 years ago?

-Dana

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Umm me... well 4 years ago I had been out of college for about 5 years and was in my mid/early 20s. About that time I was just promoted to a director at my company. 9/11 has been great for business. Sensor technology is well funded, targeting system sales on the rise, EOD training devices are doing very well, and I have taken a 10% pay increase twice in the last years. It really seems anyone in the technology arena has done well. This has nothing to do with the president though. 12 years ago I lucky enough to get in on some cutting edge fields. Never really thought textiles or steel was the next new job market. Sorry to all those who did. Its the same reason you should always invest in bandaids and toilet papers. Its not like were gonna ever not need it....

[Dana]

Umm me... well 4 years ago I had been out of college for about 5 years and was in my mid/early 20s. About that time I was just promoted to a director at my company. 9/11 has been great for business. Sensor technology is well funded, targeting system sales on the rise, EOD training devices are doing very well, and I have taken a 10% pay increase twice in the last years. It really seems anyone in the technology arena has done well. This has nothing to do with the president though. 12 years ago I lucky enough to get in on some cutting edge fields. Never really thought textiles or steel was the next new job market. Sorry to all those who did. Its the same reason you should always invest in bandaids and toilet papers. Its not like were gonna ever not need it....

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See this is a good example. You are young and started out at an entry level position and have been able to receive regular raises because your are very upwardly mobile. I would suspect that most people in that demogrpahic make less than $30,000 a year, though.

I would venture that many of the users here are in that category. Most people haven't acquired all that much debt by the time they are in their mid-twenties, so a good portion of their income can go towards entertainment items like fast Volvos.

As people grow older, they gain experience and expect the salary they receive to reflect that. These people have mortgages that run in the thousands of dollars, sometimes 2 car payments between a husband and wife, plus the added expenses of raising children. These are the people who are making fifty, sixty or even eighty thousand dollars a year.

When companies downsize or outsource jobs many of these upper level employees are the first to go because they cost the company the most. If you are a young person and lose your job, you can hack it and find another entry level job and exploit your high mobility along with your low wage demands. For an older worker this can prove disastrous because they have come to expect a certain level of pay and benefits in order to maintain their lifestyle.

With the general lack of new jobs being produced, according to the bureau of labor stats, and even fewer good paying, non-service jobs out there these days, there could be a serious adjustment in our expected standard of living in the U.S.. I'd hate to think of us turning into a third world country in 60 years,

Many people have self-invested in the stock market, and I would guess that many of your parents have. They expect there to be a nice nest egg when they retire in 10 years, don't they? What happens if the stock market stays relatively flat like it has? Can your parents afford to let their money sit their and stagnate for another 4 years? Probably not. Luckily they have the guaranteed benefits of Social Security to add a level of, well, security.

The number of people living in poverty has a huge impact on us. As the federal government cuts our taxes, more and more people are becoming dependent on public aid. Because of the lack of revenue, the goverment is able to offer less and less support. A viscious cycle indeed.

I hope that some of you take a look at the numbers and think about how they impact us all as a society. You can't isolate yourself from the world, so these things actually have a direct impact on our lives. I hope that the knee-jerk "whiner" and "he's got issues" comments were hastily posted and not the actual views of the authors.

We can actually discuss the issues and problems we face, not call eachother names.

-Dana

[Che'_Moderator]

See this is a good example. You are young and started out at an entry level position and have been able to receive regular raises because your are very upwardly mobile. I would suspect that most people in that demographic make less than $30,000 a year, though.

I would venture that many of the users here are in that category. Most people haven't acquired all that much debt by the time they are in their mid-twenties, so a good portion of their income can go towards entertainment items like fast Volvos.

As people grow older, they gain experience and expect the salary they receive to reflect that. These people have mortgages that run in the thousands of dollars, sometimes 2 car payments between a husband and wife, plus the added expenses of raising children. These are the people who are making fifty, sixty or even eighty thousand dollars a year.

When companies downsize or outsource jobs many of these upper level employees are the first to go because they cost the company the most. If you are a young person and lose your job, you can hack it and find another entry level job and exploit your high mobility along with your low wage demands. For an older worker this can prove disastrous because they have come to expect a certain level of pay and benefits in order to maintain their lifestyle.

With the general lack of new jobs being produced, according to the bureau of labor stats, and even fewer good paying, non-service jobs out there these days, there could be a serious adjustment in our expected standard of living in the U.S.. I'd hate to think of us turning into a third world country in 60 years,

Many people have self-invested in the stock market, and I would guess that many of your parents have. They expect there to be a nice nest egg when they retire in 10 years, don't they? What happens if the stock market stays relatively flat like it has? Can your parents afford to let their money sit their and stagnate for another 4 years? Probably not. Luckily they have the guaranteed benefits of Social Security to add a level of, well, security.

The number of people living in poverty has a huge impact on us. As the federal government cuts our taxes, more and more people are becoming dependent on public aid. Because of the lack of revenue, the goverment is able to offer less and less support. A viscious cycle indeed.

I hope that some of you take a look at the numbers and think about how they impact us all as a society. You can't isolate yourself from the world, so these things actually have a direct impact on our lives. I hope that the knee-jerk "whiner" and "he's got issues" comments were hastily posted and not the actual views of the authors.

We can actually discuss the issues and problems we face, not call eachother names.

-Dana

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I make 6 figures and am a principle in the company.... As director I am also payed more than 70% of the people here. Beyond that I have a huge golden parachute. I pray to to be fired every single day. I have something called job security. Maybe this is just a rub of mine, but lumping me with 30k or less demographic because I am under 30 is crap. Out of the 4 highschool buddies I still talk to, one is at Baltimore Shock Trauma making more money than god, one is a sports doctor working close with the land warrior 2000 project and several pro boxers, one is owner of a very well off lawn company in the Bethesda area, and one pretty high up in a morgage company..... I cannot imagine any of them are pulling down less than 100k a year. At the same time, they all have decent job security.

[Dana]

I make 6 figures and am a principle in the company.... As director I am also payed more than 70% of the people here.  Beyond that I have a huge golden parachute.  I pray to to be fired every single day.  I have something called job security.  Maybe this is just a rub of mine, but lumping me with 30k or less demographic because I am under 30 is crap.  Out of the 4 highschool buddies I still talk to, one is at Baltimore Shock Trauma making more money than god, one is a sports doctor working close with the land warrior 2000 project and several pro boxers, one is owner of a very well off lawn company in the Bethesda area, and one pretty high up in a morgage company..... I cannot imagine any of them are pulling down less than 100k a year.  At the same time, they all have decent job security.

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Whoa, whoa, whoa. I'm not trying to ruffle any feathers here, Mr. Administrator.

I applaud you and your friends for having succesful careers. There are of course going to be exceptions to every rule, as you have been kind enough to point out, otherwise I stand by my original post.

-Dana

[Che'_Moderator]

Whoa, whoa, whoa. I'm not trying to ruffle any feathers here, Mr. Administrator.

I applaud you and your friends for having succesful careers. There are of course going to be exceptions to every rule, as you have been kind enough to point out, otherwise I stand by my original post.

-Dana

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Not to be flippant, but I blame the media...... I do not think we are any worse off that we were 4, 10, 20 years ago. I just think with the advent of media the world is a smaller place. Yes, more manual labor/assembly line jobs are going over seas. Thats because in a lot of cases we think we are too good for those jobs. We are an ADHD society. No one wants to thread the same bolt on the same computer everyday for 20 years. So we send those jobs away. At the same time that opens up other jobs here. Just what I see.....

[Dana]

Not to be flippant, but I blame the media......  I do not think we are any worse off that we were 4, 10, 20 years ago.  I just think with the advent of media the world is a smaller place.  Yes, more manual labor/assembly line jobs are going over seas.  Thats because in a lot of cases we think we are too good for those jobs.  We are an ADHD society.  No one wants to thread the same bolt on the same computer everyday for 20 years.  So we send those jobs away.  At the same time that opens up other jobs here.  Just what I see.....

Well, it depends on what you mean by better off or worse off. If the poverty rate can be used as an indication, we're clearly not better off now than we were four years ago. This means more people are sliding downward than are climbing upward.

If you want to use job numbers to judge how the economy is going then you should look at the Bureau of Labor Statistics website. The accepted rule is that you need atleast 155,000 jobs a month created in order to just keep up with the growing working age population in the U.S.. There have been many, many months during this administration where there have been net jobs lost rather than gained.

I think you are completely wrong about Americans being 'too good' for manufacturing jobs. Those jobs provide a good income to people who may not have a college degree or higher skills. Don't tell me that they closed all those Chevy assembly lines in Michigan during the 80's because they couldn't find enough employees to take the $25/hr jobs installing windshields and welding unibodies.

Those plants closed because we realized that japanese cars were cheaper and often built to better standards than American cars.

How about all those people who assemble computers for Gateway in South Dakota? Do you think they resent the repetetive nature of their jobs when they get their paycheck every friday? I doubt it.

If we simply become a nation of consumers, and not producers, what do we have to offer the rest of the world? Intellectual, moral and miltary might can only take you so far. After that, you gotta have stuff to sell to them!

-Dana