Burn-E Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 If you rolled over the debt then you would have had a company struggling with cash flow with such a heavy load of debt servicing required and IF you had them delay coming out of bankruptcy until the credit markets righted themselves (almost a year) then you would have seen a large number of suppliers who are dependent on the GM ecosystem go out of business. This isn't brain surgery but then again maybe it is. Romney was right that a different approach was called for in normal times but the question was whether any other option really was feasible to make for a healthy company again given the liquidity crisis at the time. Remember, this is just as much about jobs as it is about what you should be throwing tax dollars at. Finally, what are you smoking, there is nothing to gain by bringing up Mexico. That's a no win conversation for either candidate and in fact given Obama's last ditch efforts to buy the hispanic vote with his amnesty plan for certain undocumented immigrants, could backfire completely on Romney as far as the voting public (read hispanic vote) is concerned. Yes the amnesty program is illegal and another example of executive privilege run amok, but there is a large swath of independent voters who believe it's the right thing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishey Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 (edited) http://www.forbes.co...nkruptcy-again/ They didn't fix the issue with GM and the Union still has control we will be dealing with this mess again it wasn't the right way to go about things. Will they be allowed to fail this time because the markets are better? I can only hope. However, I have a feeling that front is going to come tumbling down as well if Obama get re-elected as the quantitative easing will fail and shit will hit the fan and will likely happen if Romney gets elected unless he works fast. You can't prop something up hoping growth will fix it when your growth rate is 1%. Edited October 23, 2012 by Fishey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burn-E Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 You'll note I NEVER said it was fully successful nor did I say GM would survive unscathed. I'm fully aware that GM is continuing to struggle but that's not due to the bailout. There's more bloodletting to come. The question is what was the right thing to do then and how will it be dealt with now. Those are two separate questions. In a healthy economy, Romney's plan is absolutely the right set of steps to take. The Unions unfortunately are going to take it in the gut this time around if it's going to be done right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zappo Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 GM would not be where it is today if you rolled over the 53 billion back onto the company. However, you keep saying there were actual lenders out that that could or would loan them the money. Name one. http://money.cnn.com/2012/10/23/news/companies/romney-auto-bailout/index.html?hpt=hp_t2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishey Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 (edited) GM would not be where it is today if you rolled over the 53 billion back onto the company. However, you keep saying there were actual lenders out that that could or would loan them the money. Name one. http://money.cnn.com....html?hpt=hp_t2 Read my earlier post about rolling over debt. I then add ""The federal government should provide guarantees for post-bankruptcy financing" Mitt Romney 2008 If they had done that and then the government said we will guarantee financing for lenders to GM we would have been able to secure the company without the current burdens or government take over. It would have streamlined GM and we wouldn't be looking to deal with the same problem again (Unions and Poor leadership). Obama saved the Unions he didn't save GM also this idea of Green creating jobs on a global market is down right funny. China puts alot of money into green and environmentally friendly jobs right? that is why they are growing so fast I bet. Edited October 24, 2012 by Fishey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zappo Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 Read what I posted and why rolling the debt over was a bad idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfishing3 Posted October 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 China puts alot of money into green and environmentally friendly jobs right? that is why they are growing so fast I bet. pretend i'm dumb and explain your thoughts here clearly and slowly with lots of detail instead of sarcasm please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishey Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 Read what I posted and why rolling the debt over was a bad idea. I read the article but it points towards 2008-2009 markets but does not take into account holding out till markets improved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfishing3 Posted October 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 Can someone help me understand this Obama took office Jan 2009, gas prices go up... might just be a thing or might be because of his policies on energy. Any links and insight as to why it went up after he took office? Recession started in 2007 gas prices are to drop dramatically over the next couple weeks. i guess you must vote for BO now dave. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishey Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 pretend i'm dumb and explain your thoughts here clearly and slowly with lots of detail instead of sarcasm please. Environmentally friendly rules and regulations increase the cost of production in almost every single industry. So when we have these increased costs and try to sell our products in a world economy our products cost more just one of many reasons. This push to put all of our money into a market that doesn't have global support there are very few markets that care about being green. A perfect example is fuel economy in cars because you can get great fuel economy without this added tax of being green. When a company starts looking for ways to be green it ends up spending additional money into there products that don't benefit the end target of being more fuel efficient like catalyst that are basically not needed on a direct injection motor. The auto industry in America has tons of added costs that increase the cost of the product that are simply not needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burn-E Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 See I thought you were going to take this in an intelligent direction by examining how China and Germany and other countries are investing in the "green" energy sources or at least the technologies that will facilitate them. The US is failing here for many reasons, but one of them is not because the government hasn't invested in those companies (Solyndra and A123 Systems come to mind). What you're advocating is further rolling back the environmental policies that we have put in place. As someone who has visited China and has several good friends who travel their frequently for business purposes I can safely say that's not a direction we want to take. What you're advocating leads to more poisoned rivers, smog filled air, and a decline in the general health of our population. Unless of course you want to sell those vehicles overseas - oh, wait, that's exactly what GM is doing. And their cars don't face the same regulations in China that they do here. In fact they made more money in China and sold more cars there than they did in the US last year. This is Beijing under their lax policies: 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burn-E Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 What the hell is wrong with these idiots. This is the whole reason I've abandoned the Republican party and find myself floating as an independent: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-indiana-senate-candidate-criticized-over-rape-pregnancy-comments-20121024,0,2063075.story God intended a pregnancy resulting from rape? REALLY?! I get that he's trying to say that each "life" created in pregnancy is created by God, but still. REALLY?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfishing3 Posted October 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 Oh yeah. We have the right to have confused views(being nice), why I get upset Is these guys are trying to force/pass legislation on us all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zappo Posted October 26, 2012 Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 A poll of other countries on who they would like to see win the election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burn-E Posted October 26, 2012 Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 I'll be honest, I couldn't care less what the rest of the world thinks. They don't get a vote. Who validated that survey anyway? :rolleyes: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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