Simply Volvo Posted November 2, 2012 Report Share Posted November 2, 2012 Hey guys! So I haven't posted much lately and this is because I've been working on adding paddle shifters to my Volvo 850. After digging around and reading through some things such as a few PDF's from Volvo and VADIS, I've figured most of it out. Today, I finished up my first prototype and did some driving around. All I can say is WOW! Really transformed my 20V NA. Put it in the right gear and it is a blast to drive. Right now I'm working on the Eagle schematic and will be developing a PCB shortly. The kit will include:The printed circuit board with all components attachedThe physical paddle shifters themselvesAll wiring, connectors, etcInstallation instructions How it works: Basically when the car starts up, the stock transmission box is given control. When the car is in Either P or N and both paddles are pushed at the same time, the stock box is overridden and the paddles are given full control. The paddles will shift into whatever gear you were in and then you can go back into Drive. There will be an upshift and a downshift paddle. Put the car back into P or N and then hit them both at the same time again and it will switch back to the stock box. So you may be wondering how I know this works. Basically when I say override the stock box i mean cut power via a relay. Say your driving your car at 60 MPH and you shift into neutral. You then turn off the engine, turn it back on and then shift into to Drive and you can continue accelerating. It is the same concept. Shift into neutral, cut power to box, engage shifters, go to drive, drive. Then go back to neutral, turn off shifters, turn on box, go back to drive, drive away. This way, you wont throw any codes. I have experimented with tricking the box into thinking its in neutral but this didn't work. WHAT I'VE DONE:Test circuit which proves my theoryLots of research on what needs to be done TODO LIST:Finish SchematicFinish PCBFigure out P/N/D idle compensation (easy)Play with line pressureIncorporate Volvo5.0's CEL fix (easy)Add Lockup to my current circuit Right now I'm thinking you can send in your box to be modified (would cost more), there would be a core charge and I would send you a built box for Plug N Play(Most expensive), I send you just the PCB you do all the wiring yourself(Least expensive). I'm not sure what I'm going to do about that, suggestions are welcomed. This is all just a Poll to gauge some interest. If people are interested then I will move further with this. Everyone probably wants to know price. Right now I'm around $250-400 depending on which route you go. Obviously I will need to purchase a vendor status, but only if I start selling these. To the mods, I'm not selling anything yet, I'm just testing the waters. Thanks guys! I'm sure I'm forgetting something so if I think of it I'll post it up later. Hopefully I can post up a video soon or something.Any questions, feel free to post them here or PM me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vmzoller Posted November 2, 2012 Report Share Posted November 2, 2012 RAD. I actually think this is a legit idea. I'd be game if I have the money. (: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Volvo Posted November 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2012 RAD. I actually think this is a legit idea. I'd be game if I have the money. (: Cheaper options may be available in the future. Kinda like mega squirt. There is an assembled version and a solder it yourself version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vmzoller Posted November 2, 2012 Report Share Posted November 2, 2012 Even at $400 I'd pay it, just save up if I have to! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobT5M Posted November 2, 2012 Report Share Posted November 2, 2012 you sir. shut the fuck up and tell me more. this thread I am interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vivalavolvo Posted November 2, 2012 Report Share Posted November 2, 2012 Will you be keeping the control some what safe? Like i can't accidently drop it in 1st gear at 75 MPH? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Volvo Posted November 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2012 Will you be keeping the control some what safe? Like i can't accidently drop it in 1st gear at 75 MPH? I dropped it into first at about 50MPH today, nothing bad happens at all. The engine barely even revs up. As long as lockup is not engaged dropping it into first at 75MPH wont do a thing. Its really a strange thing. Since a torque converter uses fluids, the transmission will just spin and spin and spin in the fluid while barely affecting the flywheel (motor).In a sense the stall speed works in both directions, its just works really crappy backwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vivalavolvo Posted November 2, 2012 Report Share Posted November 2, 2012 What if your foots on the gas and out side of the stall speed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruzer555 Posted November 2, 2012 Report Share Posted November 2, 2012 Even at $400 I'd pay it, just save up if I have to! As cool as it is, $400 is so close to manual swap territory... I'd do a swap if I were you. Drive a T5m and you'll know what I mean, a real stick is the only way to drive IMHO, and I've owned multiple of each (two autos and about to take delivery of a third factory T5m). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bah Posted November 2, 2012 Report Share Posted November 2, 2012 What are you using to accomplish this? FPGA? MCU? IIRC Lucky has VHDL on the forums somewhere on how to pretty much do an entire paddle shifters, is why I ask...You may want to look into that. The PCB and circuit layout is easy...do at least a 4 layer board, and don't suck at placement, and you'll be fine. Nothing should be high frequency so it'd be w/e, just make sure copper width etc is all appropriate for the application. Same with whatever chip you use. Military Grade chips are worth the extra $$ sometimes. The only truly hard thing to do is testing what works and what won't eat up the transmission and kill it in 2 weeks...... Also, IIRC in Luckys design he had it feed off of the Econ/Sport switch, where you can switch the two to go in-between paddle shift mode and out...the whole going into neutral thing sounds like you need to do more testing and figure out which signals you need to intercept. I don't know enough about the codes it throws, but, if your piggybacking off the TCU you should be able to emulate any signals you need. Not hating on you, but if your asking 250$+ for something a 2$ MCU can accomplish (and even Faulty could do...), It better be pretty Let me state once more, not hating on you or the idea, just saying, for that price point it should be all high quality. Especially since we have resources on how to do paddle shifters already here, it should be a 'perfected' thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad850 Posted November 2, 2012 Report Share Posted November 2, 2012 I wantCan't imagine how you would attach the paddles behind the steering wheel though.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Volvo Posted November 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2012 What if your foots on the gas and out side of the stall speed? Pretty sure the engine will just rev like its in neutral, not entirely sure, ill try it later. As cool as it is, $400 is so close to manual swap territory... I'd do a swap if I were you. Drive a T5m and you'll know what I mean, a real stick is the only way to drive IMHO, and I've owned multiple of each (two autos and about to take delivery of a third factory T5m). That may be true for some people, but I know a lot of people who hate daily driving manuals. Like i said in my first post, price is not final im just throwing around numbers based on what i have so far. What are you using to accomplish this? FPGA? MCU? IIRC Lucky has VHDL on the forums somewhere on how to pretty much do an entire paddle shifters, is why I ask...You may want to look into that. The PCB and circuit layout is easy...do at least a 4 layer board, and don't suck at placement, and you'll be fine. Nothing should be high frequency so it'd be w/e, just make sure copper width etc is all appropriate for the application. Same with whatever chip you use. Military Grade chips are worth the extra $$ sometimes. The only truly hard thing to do is testing what works and what won't eat up the transmission and kill it in 2 weeks...... Also, IIRC in Luckys design he had it feed off of the Econ/Sport switch, where you can switch the two to go in-between paddle shift mode and out...the whole going into neutral thing sounds like you need to do more testing and figure out which signals you need to intercept. I don't know enough about the codes it throws, but, if your piggybacking off the TCU you should be able to emulate any signals you need. Not hating on you, but if your asking 250$+ for something a 2$ MCU can accomplish (and even Faulty could do...), It better be pretty Let me state once more, not hating on you or the idea, just saying, for that price point it should be all high quality. Especially since we have resources on how to do paddle shifters already here, it should be a 'perfected' thought. I considered using the econ/sport mode switch, but then when the shifters are off you lose sports mode and that defeats the whole purpose of keeping stock functionality while still having paddle shifters. With my design a relay actually fully turns off the TCU box so there is no intercepting and replicating signals. I will do more testing this weekend. Also as for eating up boxes, i dont see why that would happen. Im doing the exact same thing the stock TCU box is doing its just you get to control the gears. I want Can't imagine how you would attach the paddles behind the steering wheel though.. Right now im using microswitches for my test paddles, though i have an idea for how im going to mount them, ill go more into that later when the electronics are done. Did some more work on the schematic. Its almost done, then i can layout the PCB. I need some opinions on Lockup. I was thinking if your in 4th gear and you hit the upshift one more time it'll do 4th gear plus lockup. I was considering using an external switch or something to control lockup... but the lockup clutch is so weak that using it in any other gear would be completely pointless and most likely you would end up blowing it up. For instance accelerating in first gear with lockup would just slip like crazy and kill the lockup clutch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BtownVolvo Posted November 2, 2012 Report Share Posted November 2, 2012 Subscribed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Volvo Posted November 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2012 WEEKEND GOALS:Finish the schematicTest the theory of cutting power to the tcu then re-enabling it without throwing codes. If im in neutral and cut the power, then power it back up i shouldn't throw any codes. If im in drive and i do it, i may because normally you cant start the car in drive so the tcu may whine about the PNP switch being all screwed up, but well sell. Even if you have to shift to neutral enable the shifters then go back to drive thats not that much of a hassel at all and you still get to keep sports mode. This seems like the most reliable, straight forward and best way to do it. Opinions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vmzoller Posted November 2, 2012 Report Share Posted November 2, 2012 As cool as it is, $400 is so close to manual swap territory... I'd do a swap if I were you. Drive a T5m and you'll know what I mean, a real stick is the only way to drive IMHO, and I've owned multiple of each (two autos and about to take delivery of a third factory T5m). True, but in some ways as my DD it's easier to have an auto. If I could pick up another S70 in the next couple years then I'd for sure manual swap one and keep the other auto just for ease of use. But I totally get what you're saying, it's been my plan up until now to just swap it in the next 6 months. I just like that there may be a second option now. That may be true for some people, but I know a lot of people who hate daily driving manuals. Like i said in my first post, price is not final im just throwing around numbers based on what i have so far. I considered using the econ/sport mode switch, but then when the shifters are off you lose sports mode and that defeats the whole purpose of keeping stock functionality while still having paddle shifters. With my design a relay actually fully turns off the TCU box so there is no intercepting and replicating signals. I will do more testing this weekend. Also as for eating up boxes, i dont see why that would happen. Im doing the exact same thing the stock TCU box is doing its just you get to control the gears. Exactly. And agreed. WEEKEND GOALS:Finish the schematicTest the theory of cutting power to the tcu then re-enabling it without throwing codes. If im in neutral and cut the power, then power it back up i shouldn't throw any codes. If im in drive and i do it, i may because normally you cant start the car in drive so the tcu may whine about the PNP switch being all screwed up, but well sell. Even if you have to shift to neutral enable the shifters then go back to drive thats not that much of a hassel at all and you still get to keep sports mode. This seems like the most reliable, straight forward and best way to do it. Opinions? I don't think it's that much of a hassle at all. I shift into neutral all the time for coasting down hills and stuff. Not hard at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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