lookforjoe Posted December 18, 2012 Report Share Posted December 18, 2012 Having bent valves on several occasions, swapping valves out is no biggie - BUT without machine shop access yourself, the labor may eat any savings over just getting a used head & just throwing valve seals at it. This shouldn't make sense, since replacing seals means removing the valves, but.... Solid lifter heads have to have clearances adjusted ( typically by grinding a few thou off the valve stem in a designed for that specifically grinder setup). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tightmopedman9 Posted December 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2012 Are the head and the block mated to each other in any way? I found a head in Denver and could look at it in person. If the valves are still sealed well and the surface was flat it would just be a simple swap, no? Thanks for all the help everyone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted December 19, 2012 Report Share Posted December 19, 2012 Are the head and the block mated to each other in any way? I found a head in Denver and could look at it in person. If the valves are still sealed well and the surface was flat it would just be a simple swap, no? Thanks for all the help everyone! No, they are not. You really want to replace the valve stem seals though. What year is the head from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tightmopedman9 Posted December 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2012 (edited) 2005 I believe. I would like to put new valve stem seals in, but I wonder how much the shop cost would be? Edited December 19, 2012 by Tightmopedman9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keaton85 Posted December 19, 2012 Report Share Posted December 19, 2012 yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdlimy Posted December 19, 2012 Report Share Posted December 19, 2012 (edited) shouldnt run you anymore than about 80 bucks labor to have the seals put in. But all machine shops vary. I would buy a used head, its going to be a newer rn head anyways and you are likely to find one in good condition. Take it straight to the machine shop and tell them to pressure test it and call you with the results, that will find any issues, have them deck it while they have it. My machine shop charges me 30 for a hot tank(cleaning), 30 for redecking(machining true/flat) and 30 for pressure testing. I never install used heads without having them resurfaced, there is always some ammount of warping even if the head hasnt been overheated, and it gives you a nice clean surface for the headgasket to seal properly. Edit: Wont cost much to lap the valves at the same time as replacing seals, but if they pressure test it and it checks good then no need to, but bottom line is, if you are having the seals replaced just have the thing pressure tested and resurfaced at the same time. Edited December 19, 2012 by mdlimy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tightmopedman9 Posted December 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2012 I'm really trying to save money here, but no sense in doing a half ass job if it will lead to problems down the road. Do you think the collision spots will create hot spots enough to warrant scraping the whole engine? I'm taking the head off tomorrow and will post some pictures when I'm done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdlimy Posted December 19, 2012 Report Share Posted December 19, 2012 I dont think you will have an issue with hot spots, its not like the motor was running at high rpms when they made impact, i doubt there will be much damage to the piston. Smooth it out the best you can, a flap disk on an air grinder/dremel works good, you just dont want any sharp spots. You said it right, no point half assing it at this point, the couple hundred extra you might spend at the machine shop will be well worth it, these rn motors are capable of handling very decent horsepower when in good condition and with a proper tune, but everything needs to be in good order. You might consider an OEM s60r mls headgasket, i ran one on my last rn motor build, never really put it to a good test but it sure looked a hell of a lot better then the standard oem gasket. I know what its like trying to do stuff on a budget and trying to get it done as fast as possible but on the subject of spending more money while the head is off....rods are only a few hundred bucks and with the head off the motor its not much more work to crack the rod bearings and push the rods and pistons up and out, just reminding you of your options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tightmopedman9 Posted December 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2012 (edited) God damn you Robbie... I'd have to drop the pan for rods, no? What more work would I need to do? Well I'm in there I might as well do the rings too, but I heard they aren't sold separately from the pistons and you'd need a new hone. Despite new rods, wouldn't the 83mm bore still be the limiting factor? The stock head gasket quoted from VIDA, 30637066, is the MLS found on the S60R... Edited December 19, 2012 by Tightmopedman9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdlimy Posted December 19, 2012 Report Share Posted December 19, 2012 God damn you Robbie... I'd have to drop the pan for rods, no? What more work would I need to do? Well I'm in there I might as well do the rings too, but I heard they aren't sold separately from the pistons and you'd need a new hone. Despite new rods, wouldn't the 83mm bore still be the limiting factor? The stock head gasket quoted from VIDA, 30637066, is the MLS found on the S60R... Yes drop the pan. Correct you cannot buy rings seperate, but there is a rumor that some vag rings fit these pistons....Captainbondo knows about this. the 83mm bore is still a limiting factor and a completly seperate issue from the rods, with the rods you can let boost come on as fast as you want without the fear of a rod breaking, you will still have the fear of cracking a sleeve but that issue is there to stay, not much you can do about that other than have a very spot on tune. Honestly at this point if you really are considering putting rods in it while the head is off i would just yank the motor back out(what is it like a few hours work?) and take your time, seems like rushing might have gotten you in this mess in the first place. Get a solid head put together, pull the rods and pistons, do a rehone with a ball hone( can get one from the autostore), clean up the pistons real good with some break clean, replace the rings if you can find some, if not throw them back in with some forged rods and new bearings and you will have a nice fresh motor. I put together two rn motors with used pistons , they looked in great shape and both sets had over 100k miles on them, i cleaned them up real good, did a rehone and dropped them in along with some oem(not cheap by any means!) bearings in the bottom end and those motors ran smooth as butter, smoothest running motors i have ever driven in a p80. If i could give you one bit of advice it would be this....Find another way of transport for the next few weeks or so, and relax a bit, dont rush things, order all the parts you need, get parts to the machine shop and play the waiting game, take your time assembling everything and get the car put back together. Mistakes happen when trying to start your car for the first time at 11pm on a sunday night in hopes of driving it to work the next day, been there done that...many times, it never works out for the best. At the end of it all you will have peice of mind that the motor is in great shape internally and is capable of handling what you want it too, and you will be done with all the hard work, the rest is easy peezy, swapping turbos on the weekend, tuning, tweaking etc...atleast you will have a solid long block. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tightmopedman9 Posted December 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2012 (edited) I'm going to start pulling the head now. Do I need something to hold the cams to the cover or can I just be careful and leave them on the bottom of the cover? Do I need to remove the VVT gears as well? Edited December 19, 2012 by Tightmopedman9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keaton85 Posted December 19, 2012 Report Share Posted December 19, 2012 You don't need anything. Just be patient above removing it as the VVT hubs are hard to clear the head. I have to take the VVT cam with the cover most times by using my fingers to hold one side while messing with the VVT side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Riker Posted December 19, 2012 Report Share Posted December 19, 2012 Yeah. I have to admit... I've been wondering about just rebuilding the whole thing since you're going to be halfway into it anyways, and rods not being too expensive, etc... Did I read correctly you found a head and turbo for 200? I would have been on that like white on rice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Riker Posted December 19, 2012 Report Share Posted December 19, 2012 EDIT: Oh... and GET NEW HEAD BOLTS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tightmopedman9 Posted December 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2012 Trying to separate the valve cover now, a little more difficult than I originally thought. In all honesty I probably won't get new rods, I need to get this thing on the road and it just isn't in my budget (as much as I would like it to be). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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