Politics On Politics.

[theForgottenone]

Target allow transgender bathroom.  

Target on Tuesday published a blog post reiterating its support of federal legislation that would protect people from discrimination based on sexuality or gender identity.

In addition, it said transgender employees and shoppers are welcome to use the restroom or fitting room that corresponds with their gender identity.

http://www.oregonlive.com/window-shop/index.ssf/2016/04/target_transgender_bathroom_policy.html#incart_river_index

[Fudge_Brownie]

2 minutes ago, theForgottenone said:

Target allow transgender bathroom.  

http://www.oregonlive.com/window-shop/index.ssf/2016/04/target_transgender_bathroom_policy.html#incart_river_index

I find this a bizarre issue because I really doubt there is any new threat.

What's the solution when a guy who looks a lot like a woman goes to the men's room and gets told to get out? Or a woman with a goatee, broad shoulders and a surgically altered chest follows another woman in to the women's room? I can see how it's a tricky issue, because I don't think you can make a clear line in the sand. The simplest solution might be to say 'use the bathroom most people would guess you would use'. But that's kind of hard to put on paper. And I'm sure will still get some pushback from the overly-PC types who can't accept a reasonable compromise to a difficult issue.

I wonder if people would feel a little better if we started installing more private stalls? From what I understand, not all parts of the world use the short-door wide gap system. Instead, they're more like individual closets. And the next iteration would be to have a wall of those, a line of sinks, and remove any gender boundary. Does gender really matter when you're washing your hands?

[Burn-E]

we already discussed the issue (minus Target in the President thread).  Put an 8 year old girl in the same bathroom with a teenager or older man who supposedly identifies as a woman.  There's your issue Alden.

[Fudge_Brownie]

12 minutes ago, Burn-E said:

we already discussed the issue (minus Target in the President thread).  Put an 8 year old girl in the same bathroom with a teenager or older man who supposedly identifies as a woman.  There's your issue Alden.

Right but that already happens today. Because the man appears so closely to a woman it goes unnoticed or at least does not raise serious concern. In the event a man appears too closely to a man, but still claims to be a woman, many will question their decision to try and enter the women's room. This does not give free license to anyone to just be like "I'm a woman today" any different than it was before. But I bet we'd agree one of the real core issues is poorly described as militant political correctness. The attempt to silence or shame people who would say "I saw you go in the men's room for the past month, and now you're following my daughter in to the women's room?". We shouldn't be confusing transgendered people with sexual predators. It's mildly similar to the unjustifiable fear of muslims because so many terrorists claim to be affiliated.

This is another can of worms, but what makes the guy so much more dangerous than the woman who's already allowed to enter? That's somewhat rhetorical or devils advocate. And I don't think the answer is very PC. Maybe a better scenario is sending you're 8 year old boy in to the bathroom after the local priest just entered? Is it possible people are too accustom or blind to the existing risk?

[Burn-E]

Alden when you're talking about your own child rather than a theoretical kid come talk to me.  Until then you're insufficiently invested.

Go read the President thread.  I've already stated my position there.  Not interested in a retread.

[Fudge_Brownie]

2 minutes ago, Burn-E said:

Alden when you're talking about your own child rather than a theoretical kid come talk to me.  Until then you're insufficiently invested.

Great, so I'm gonna have to build one, and start sending them in to bathrooms and eighteen years from now I'll send you an email? Can't you just pretend there's at least one person out there who has kids and would say the same thing I just said?

I already read what you had posted there, but after the conversation had passed. I roughly agree with what you posted. Probably summarized as confused people trying to solve a problem they later realize they didn't have. And that, in part, is why i figured we'd agree on the militant PC stuff. Because it isn't very popular to say that maybe we need to ease up on stuff like 'gender fluid'. I could accept that there's 1 person in the country with some odd brain function that has them feeling differently every morning. I don't know what the number is for 'too common to believe', but there must be some upper limit.

[Burn-E]

Now you're making sense.  I thought you were leaning in the other direction based on your previous comment. Right now in my kids' school district that number is ~6 in 6,000.  In other words we're doing this because a very small handful of boys - it's all boys in this case - self identify as a girl.  We're going to overhaul laws because .3% of society and probably only a small percentage of that group legitimately have a different body chemistry. But if we call it what it is for most of them, gender dysphoria and treat it properly sanity would be restored. This concept of fluidity is psychobabble for the vast majority of that population.

[theForgottenone]

It is an easy choice for me, I won't take my daughters to Target in the future or plan to use their restroom.  Rarely we ever use public restroom but most of the time it was either in Macy store or Nordstrom. 

[Fudge_Brownie]

1 hour ago, theForgottenone said:

It is an easy choice for me, I won't take my daughters to Target in the future or plan to use their restroom.  Rarely we ever use public restroom but most of the time it was either in Macy store or Nordstrom. 

Good point. Nordstrom does a full background check and patdown on every person who enters their restroom.

1 hour ago, Burn-E said:

Right now in my kids' school district that number is ~6 in 6,000.  In other words we're doing this because a very small handful of boys

High enough a number, and at a young enough age, that I'd be extremely skepitcal. I'd love to know if they were unintentionally primed to the idea. But that's where you get to the PC issue. So let's pretend 1 in 6000 is without a doubt transgender. What's the solution? I don't think there's a clear answer. I lean towards a private bathroom, just give those who 'qualify' a key. But then it's a special privilege and ostracization issue. And what is the criteria for qualifying? Clinical diagnosis? Who pays for that?

[theForgottenone]

10 minutes ago, Fudge_Brownie said:

Good point. Nordstrom does a full background check and patdown on every person who enters their restroom.

 

No but they clearly label their bathroom in the proper gender. There are no policy or confusing for their customers.

 

i have friends/co-workers that are either lesbian or gay.  I accepted them for who they are but sharing bathroom for transgender is not acceptable for my children. There are no discussion beyond that.

[Kevin.]

I just don't see the issue here, let people use the bathroom that make the most sense to them

[ErikS]

In Europe you usually get two bathrooms, no signs for male/female in public spaces. If one is open you use it.  I happily piss in front of female bathroom cleaners when I'm there all the time.

Media hoopla and distracting politics.  This stuff is on the "what is important in life" scale is at a -12.

[Fudge_Brownie]

15 minutes ago, ErikS said:

In Europe you usually get two bathrooms, no signs for male/female in public spaces. If one is open you use it.  I happily piss in front of female bathroom cleaners when I'm there all the time.

Media hoopla and distracting politics.  This stuff is on the "what is important in life" scale is at a -12.

How come Pedo-Bear hasn't relocated to Europe?

Any plans to change the way your school handles the issue?

[ErikS]

Kids don't make those kinds of awkward demands in their teen years.  I don't see any schools doing anything about it, but if they had too its easy as almost all have a single stall HC bathroom that could be used for that purpose.

[Burn-E]

What about locker rooms Erik?