Politics On Politics.

[mattsk8]

7 minutes ago, Fudge_Brownie said:

Matt, if I'm part of  the opposing view this issue (and I probably am), am I a liberal? And a libtard? I'm asking rhetorically, because I think you'd be able to make your point better if you could stop linking it to a political view. Divorce the idea that the opposing viewpoint represents some much larger voting pool. Just talk about the issue. Don't be so small minded.

So... forget the fence you seem to be riding... where do you stand on the issue? And would you consider yourself a democrat or a republican? Because I would bet some serious money that while a small percentage of republicans might not care, the greater majority of the population pushing this crap fall under the umbrella of democrat. That doesn't make me small minded, that's just some common sense.

But I do agree and I apologize. I have friends that are very much democrats, so using the term "libtard" probably isn't all that nice. Unfortunately I'm not sure what to call someone that doesn't see an issue with any of the points I've brought up.

Edited April 27, 2016 by mattsk8

[Yellow95]

1 hour ago, ErikS said:

Show me the law where it is illegal for a man to use a woman's restroom, and vice versa.

It is quasi-illegal in most U.S. jurisdictions (as in you can only be arrested if you are told to leave and don't), and in some it is illegal, but even there, it's a case of it's not a problem until it's a problem -- that is, it's not a problem until someone decides to raise a stink. 

45 minutes ago, S8ET6 said:

In the meantime, I'm just grateful that I can drink from the same water fountain as you guys. Thanks  'merica!

When did that become law?  ;)

12 minutes ago, Fudge_Brownie said:

Matt, if I'm part of  the opposing view this issue (and I probably am), am I a liberal? And a libtard? I'm asking rhetorically, because I think you'd be able to make your point better if you could stop linking it to a political view. Divorce the idea that the opposing viewpoint represents some much larger voting pool. Just talk about the issue. Don't be so small minded.

No, he has it pretty much nailed.

[S8ET6]

raise a stink... in a bathroom...

The jokes just write themselves around here

 

[Yellow95]

32 minutes ago, S8ET6 said:

raise a stink... in a bathroom...

The jokes just write themselves around here

 

We drop a stink(y) round these parts.

[Kevin.]

there is a clear difference between those that are transgender (or identify with a different gender) using the bathroom that they most identify with, and someone who blatantly enters a bathroom with malicious intentions. 

 

the issue arises when you lump these two groups of people together, it's just not right. 

[Fudge_Brownie]

1 hour ago, mattsk8 said:

So... forget the fence you seem to be riding... where do you stand on the issue? And would you consider yourself a democrat or a republican? Because I would bet some serious money that while a small percentage of republicans might not care, the greater majority of the population pushing this crap fall under the umbrella of democrat. That doesn't make me small minded, that's just some common sense.

But I do agree and I apologize. I have friends that are very much democrats, so using the term "libtard" probably isn't all that nice. Unfortunately I'm not sure what to call someone that doesn't see an issue with any of the points I've brought up.

Regarding the fence, which issue? The bathroom one, or broader? I won't answer your second question yet, because I think it's an attempt to fit me (or anyone) in to two divided groups. And that's a major problem. You should avoid that. It's not us against them, or you against me. And thinking someone who feels differently on this bathroom issue makes them a liberal (or a libtard) is, by definition, small minded. Or maybe a misuse of the term if you mean socially liberal. But socially liberal, politically liberal, and Democrat are all different things. I think it has to do with your surroundings that make this practice seem normal. I get it. But really consider not linking these issues until it comes two which candidate to vote for.

Do you know that your friends are Democrats? Or are they just politically liberal, or maybe even socialists, who currently support the Democrat candidate because that person gets closest to their views?

[mattsk8]

6 minutes ago, Fudge_Brownie said:

Regarding the fence, which issue? The bathroom one, or broader? I won't answer your second question yet, because I think it's an attempt to fit me (or anyone) in to two divided groups. And that's a major problem. You should avoid that. It's not us against them, or you against me. And thinking someone who feels differently on this bathroom issue makes them a liberal (or a libtard) is, by definition, small minded. Or maybe a misuse of the term if you mean socially liberal. But socially liberal, politically liberal, and Democrat are all different things. I think it has to do with your surroundings that make this practice seem normal. I get it. But really consider not linking these issues until it comes two which candidate to vote for.

Do you know that your friends are Democrats? Or are they just politically liberal, or maybe even socialists, who currently support the Democrat candidate because that person gets closest to their views?

Well... I guess the disconnect here is that I consider a person who shares the same views as the current democratic party, as well one who votes democrat... a democrat. I guess there's a new definition now, and maybe you think I'm discriminating against people that aren't sure if they're democrat or republican... regardless of what reality would dictate?? Help me understand.

[Burn-E]

1 hour ago, S8ET6 said:

why stop there??

If you identify as black AND as female then you can be Rachel Dolezal

 

You mock him but Matt has a very salient point. Are we now a world where anyone can be anything just because that's how they feel and society is expected to not only accept but treat them with kid gloves?

Transgender is a lie.  A confusion of the mind.

Rachel Dolezal was mocked and kicked out of the NAACP because she was living a lie.

What's crazy is how this guy is received when a white 5'9" guy declares he's a 6 foot Chinese woman.

 

[Fudge_Brownie]

3 minutes ago, mattsk8 said:

Well... I guess the disconnect here is that I consider a person who shares the same views as the current democratic party, as well one who votes democrat... a democrat. I guess there's a new definition now, and maybe you think I'm discriminating against people that aren't sure if they're democrat or republican... regardless of what reality would dictate?? Help me understand.

I agree that someone who generally holds the same views as the democratic party, and votes democrat, is a democrat. But when analyzing an issue, it's irrelevant. It's just an issue which you have opinions on. They might be a registered democrat who loves the death penalty.  I'd call someone who adopts the democrat party's opinion on the issue by default without giving it their own thought a lemming.

Look at the two major democratic candidates. One wants tax payers to fund college education, while I'm pretty sure the other doesn't. So is that a democratic view? No, it's just a debate topic. You're for it, or against it. Maybe you still vote for Bernie despite disagreeing on the 'free' college, since you like the rest of his stuff. You voted democrat, but you're really a socialist. These groupings help us understand roughly what political candidates stand for, and in conversation, it helps me identify my views to you. But if you don't know what group I'm closest to, then it doesn't matter. Especially when discussing a single issue.

For the record, I think I distinctly don't fit in to either of the major parties and/or conservative or liberal terms. Which is partially why I'm going all soapbox. I'm generally fiscally conservative and socially liberal. I also like to summarize it as 'free country'

[Burn-E]

Everyone wants a free country until doing so intrudes upon some sacred personal right.  Every. Single. Time.

[Kevin.]

14 minutes ago, Burn-E said:

Everyone wants a free country until doing so intrudes upon some sacred personal right.  Every. Single. Time.

 

just like "religious liberty" laws. Wonder if they apply to Muslims too?

[Fudge_Brownie]

2 minutes ago, Burn-E said:

Everyone wants a free country until doing so intrudes upon some sacred personal right.  Every. Single. Time.

It might not come across online, but I say it somewhat sarcastically. Free country doesn't mean you can shoot my dog at my house because 'merica. I guess if you really break it down, it's a free country as much as the rights protected by the constitution.

I find the video you posted way more fascinating than I expected. So many thoughts. Some of the responses might have to do with social etiquette; not being confrontational. Especially on camera. But I think the overarching issue is the end half talks about physically verifiable characteristics. And while sex is also physically verifiable, it also deals with a mental component. A similar issue that comes to mind is phantom limb syndrome. People who've lost a limb still perceive one to be there. I wonder how much of this "oh ok, good for you" stuff is a phase in life. These younger people, surrounded by a new world, try to test how open minded they can be.

[mattsk8]

10 minutes ago, Fudge_Brownie said:

But I think the overarching issue is the end half talks about physically verifiable characteristics. And while sex is also physically verifiable, it also deals with a mental component.

Sex isn't the only one, It all deals with a mental component. You're either a man or you're a woman, DNA can verify that. You're either African American, Caucasian, Native American, Asian... etc... DNA can also verify that (as well as physically verifiable characteristics). So... what you stated is entirely inconsequential and actually goes to prove the points we've been making. You can't wake up and decide what you are, you have reality to deal with. I'm not being mean, I'm being honest.

And I absolutely agree 100% that "transgender is a lie, a confusion of the mind". There is no better way to word it.

[Fudge_Brownie]

10 minutes ago, mattsk8 said:

Sex isn't the only one, It all deals with a mental component. You're either a man or you're a woman, DNA can verify that. You're either African American, Caucasian, Native American, Asian... etc... DNA can also verify that (as well as physically verifiable characteristics). So... what you stated is entirely inconsequential and actually goes to prove the points we've been making. You can't wake up and decide what you are, you have reality to deal with. I'm not being mean, I'm being honest.

And I absolutely agree 100% that "transgender is a lie, a confusion of the mind". There is no better way to word it.

I agree that sex, as in XX or XY chromosome is pretty clear cut. Let's ignore genetic deformities for the purpose of debate. So if the genetics are the strict determining factor, does this also mean you think it guarantees heterosexuality? XX means the guy is attracted to XY girl? That's certainly the default, but does that genetic aspect guarantee that?

[mattsk8]

3 minutes ago, Fudge_Brownie said:

I agree that sex, as in XX or XY chromosome is pretty clear cut. Let's ignore genetic deformities for the purpose of debate. So if the genetics are the strict determining factor, does this also mean you think it guarantees heterosexuality? XX means the guy is attracted to XY girl? That's certainly the default, but does that genetic aspect guarantee that?

I'll bite... Obviously XX does NOT guarantee that a man is attracted to XY girl, your genetic code doesn't dictate your physical attractions (or more specifically, your lusts), at least not that anyone can find yet.