TaskMule Posted December 18, 2012 Report Share Posted December 18, 2012 But what is that "something"? That's wonderful, I think we'd alllll like to see a way to prevent these problems. But I think I speak for a lot of the opponents when I say no one has proposed an effective method yet. People's desire to come up with a fix is understandable. But you can't just "do something" for the sake of not doing nothing. That doesn't make it work. That doesn't mean it will help. Well, if I knew what to do, I'd be a state legislator. Glad I'm not. I am merely pointing out that I see changes coming. And a lot of people won't like it, but it's time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaskMule Posted December 18, 2012 Report Share Posted December 18, 2012 Unless you can actually get rid of all of the guns (all of them), I don't think you'll make a significant difference. Thus, gun control is an idealistic concept we all cling to in the hope of saving lives and avoiding ever again having to feel the gut-wrenching sorrow we all feel at the loss of these children. But it doesn't mean it's not an important topic, and it doesn't mean that we shouldn't at least consider every option we can and continue to try to make things better. It also doesn't mean we should give up our freedoms for some idealistic hope. Here's a problem right here; unwilling to give up "freedoms" for some idealistic hope? Freedom itself is an ideal, its not a thing. Its a matter of which one you value more. So far, "freedom" (and it's associated and escalating random killing) is winning by a wide margin. Not hard to figure out at all. In every nation on the planet that has enacted stricter gun controls in the face of escalating crime, gun related crime has gone down across the board. The rest of the planet is watching the US, and scratching their heads. Stop being so in love with your guns and your gun-culture, and things will start going right. Its certainly headed in the wrong direction right now. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Che'_Moderator Posted December 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2012 Not hard to figure out at all. In every nation on the planet that has enacted stricter gun controls in the face of escalating crime, gun related crime has gone down across the board. Gun related crime, but not violent crime. Its like the UK with stabbings. I forget numbers but you are way way more likely to be beat to death or stabbed in the UK than you are in the US. Also worth a mention is most countries in the world is seeing increased homicide rates. The general trend in the US has been a down swing since the 70s. If you want a good read thats not bias check out: http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20110218135832/http://rds.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs10/hosb0110.pdf <- Props to Tom for finding that. The other fun fact is when the UK ban pistols there where an estimated 57,000 owners. The last numbers for the US on pistol ownership is 81 million and change. Government going to buy them all back, or just ask for them to be turned in? When roughly 1 in 900 people owns a pistol its pretty easy to make policy. When the number is more like 1 in 4, thats a lot more tough. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
550 Posted December 18, 2012 Report Share Posted December 18, 2012 ]And a lot of people won't like it, but it's time. Care to explain, why it's about time? About time for what? Useless, feel good legislature? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewhiteguy1 Posted December 18, 2012 Report Share Posted December 18, 2012 A friend of mine mentioned California was trying to institute something where all semi auto rifle types had to be made with a metal screw that holds the clip in, so when you go to swap clips, you have to unscrew a screw first. Lowering reload times = saving lives? What do you guys think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Che'_Moderator Posted December 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2012 A friend of mine mentioned California was trying to institute something where all semi auto rifle types had to be made with a metal screw that holds the clip in, so when you go to swap clips, you have to unscrew a screw first. Lowering reload times = saving lives? What do you guys think I mentioned this back on page one I think. They passed this law years ago. Its a PITA and puts a lot of wear on the weapon, and they already have legal loopholes for it, but the law does do what it was intended to do. Makes way more sense than banning a bayonet lug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewhiteguy1 Posted December 18, 2012 Report Share Posted December 18, 2012 I mentioned this back on page one I think. They passed this law years ago. Its a PITA and puts a lot of wear on the weapon, and they already have legal loopholes for it, but the law does do what it was intended to do. Makes way more sense than banning a bayonet lug. must have missed it in my reading the thread. Legal loop holes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Che'_Moderator Posted December 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2012 Bullet button. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaskMule Posted December 18, 2012 Report Share Posted December 18, 2012 Care to explain, why it's about time? About time for what? Useless, feel good legislature? Or maybe useful legislature? Things are already happening in Washington today, so, lets see what unfolds. The rest of the civilized world see's your second amendment as an obviously outdated piece of centuries-old legislature. Times have changed, weapons have changed. Things need to be updated to reflect that reality. Maybe start there. Why is it time? It's time to get control of your gun-love culture problem, for obvious reasons. Its a monumental task, as Chuck pointed out. Its going to be like moving a mountain. But hey, you guys made gun-mountain, you can move it. It can be done. With great leadership and thoughtful dialogue, great things can be made to happen. Let's hope your elected leaders have the courage to stand up and make your country a better place, rather than keep blowing the NRA like a common whore. Or, I guess you could leave things as they are, ignore the problems which the disproportionate amount of guns per capita in your country brings to your streets, and continue the widely-broadcast slow, downward spiral of your society. Choice time. Which horrific event will be the straw that breaks the camels back. I hope it was Newtown, CT. Good luck. Its a hell of a big mess you have on your hands. 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fudge_Brownie Posted December 18, 2012 Report Share Posted December 18, 2012 All you did was type a lot to effectively say "because all the cool kids are doing it". No where in there did I see an actual explanation of how any legislature could be useful instead of feel good, or why it was time. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Che'_Moderator Posted December 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2012 VA tech was a bigger blood bath and 2 months later no one cared. Its harsh but the numbers are too low. 300,000,000 people in the US, 10,000 killed every year by firearms. Sadly thats in the noise statistically. If you ban firearms I doubt you would save 10,000 lives. Some people would just be killed in other ways. You would save a good deal of them though I will admit that. But back to the question. Are you implying the gov should force owners to surrender their firearms for no reimbursement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
550 Posted December 18, 2012 Report Share Posted December 18, 2012 (edited) Or maybe useful legislature? Things are already happening in Washington today, so, lets see what unfolds. The rest of the civilized world see's your second amendment as an obviously outdated piece of centuries-old legislature. Times have changed, weapons have changed. Things need to be updated to reflect that reality. Maybe start there. Why is it time? It's time to get control of your gun-love culture problem, for obvious reasons. Its a monumental task, as Chuck pointed out. Its going to be like moving a mountain. But hey, you guys made gun-mountain, you can move it. It can be done. With great leadership and thoughtful dialogue, great things can be made to happen. Let's hope your elected leaders have the courage to stand up and make your country a better place, rather than keep blowing the NRA like a common whore. Or, I guess you could leave things as they are, ignore the problems which the disproportionate amount of guns per capita in your country brings to your streets, and continue the widely-broadcast slow, downward spiral of your society. Choice time. Which horrific event will be the straw that breaks the camels back. I hope it was Newtown, CT. Good luck. Its a hell of a big mess you have on your hands. You honestly think a USEFUL law will be put into place? What will it do? How will it read? Should all weapons be banned? How about ammo. You think that the general public will even give a flying shit? Maybe they'll stock pile more, maybe the REAL nut cases will come out. Like we have discussed multiple times in this thread, it will only be "feel good" politics. Which does nothing, and perhaps can make things even worst. Once your gaurd is down, that's when you get hit the hardest. Don't be naive. Edited December 18, 2012 by 550 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Che'_Moderator Posted December 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2012 Surprised it has not been said yet but under CT law he was committing a class D felony even owning that weapon under chapter 943 sub section 53-202c which defines an assault weapon as: 3. Any semiautomatic firearm not listed in subdivision (1) that meets the following criteria: (A) A semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least two of the following: i. a folding or telescopic stock; ii. a pistol grip; iii. a bayonet mount; iv. a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor; and v. a grenade launcher. Even states that have assault weapon bans, have them poorly written. On top of that, I don't think he even though twice about breaking said law, so not sure how one more would have stopped him. If you are about to commit over 100 felonies, whats one more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Riker Posted December 18, 2012 Report Share Posted December 18, 2012 They could attempt to ban guns because they are too big... or too small... or because they fire too many rounds too quickly... or because etc etc etc etc.. However, this does nothing to address the monumental issues of mental health issues in America today. Bred by generations of mental issues, and compounded by the move towards a less efficient medical coverage system, I do not see this ending well. Me personally? I'd rather die on my feet then live on my knees. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
550 Posted December 18, 2012 Report Share Posted December 18, 2012 I don't disagree with a ban of some sort. However, it won't change anything, it will just create a different kind of market for it. Of which we don't have the budget or man power to stop. I agree however with die on my feet than live on my knees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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