Commander Riker Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 Only have my mossberg 500 (zombie ready) for now. Hoping to get a W2... then it will be time to decide whether I need a turbo or a .40 cal :-P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewhiteguy1 Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 Compare how each country achieved their independence from Britain. The US will never become Canada. These proposed laws are returning to the 1994 standards. Nothing much has changed. Oh man this is golden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caanglin Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 I think I speak for everyone when I say this is what we want in Murica. /drunkposting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCviggen Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 JC - Compare to Britain for instance. They have a substantially higher rate of violent crimes. You need to reference the countries own recording institutions. And avoid wikipedia ... If you want to take the easy route you can find some non-partisan youtube videos on the matter. Here's an example for ya - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ooa98FHuaU0 The problem is that every country has a different way of counting crimes, something like murder is a much better yardstick than "violent crime" which is ambiguous. The US is well ahead of the civilized world there by any statistic. The UK actually has quite a lot of shitholes as well although they're referred to as chavs over there lol. You mentioned FBI stats, those were used in what I linked to. Some interesting tidbits, 260 justifiable "homicides" http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-15 "Accidental gun deaths" are a multiple of that number. So it's much more likely for someone to end up accidentally dead than to kill an offender out of self defense. The Obama security pic is funny, but sort of misses the point probably on purpose. The president of the USA (whoever it is) has a target on his back 24/7. 99+% of regular gun owners have no need for such protection because there's nothing that makes them a target. And 99+% of gun owners have not had the insane background checks and training that members of the secret service have, I would imagine. The NRA is right about one thing, the problem isn't the guns its who owns them. In any case, you cannot look around the fact that in most developed countries regular people hardly ever own guns, and at the same time are considerably safer than the US. So "guns keep us safe" does not appear to be working very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfishing3 Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 yeah, we don't have a problem. http://news.yahoo.com/gun-found-seven-olds-backpack-york-city-school-015418013.html 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishey Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 In any case, you cannot look around the fact that in most developed countries regular people hardly ever own guns, and at the same time are considerably safer than the US. So "guns keep us safe" does not appear to be working very well. There are plenty of countries with lax gun laws that have very low crime rate. There is literally no correlation between gun laws and gun violence. Honestly, you would have a better chance of drawing a correlation of gun violence with many other statistics. In America the link to unemployment and urban areas is pretty staggering. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Riker Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 People want to blame guns for gun violence, rather than blame society and realize 'Murica is broken (quite potentially beyond repair). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCviggen Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 There are plenty of countries with lax gun laws that have very low crime rate. There is literally no correlation between gun laws and gun violence. Your first sentence could have some truth in it, because crime rate is ambiguous and can be not gun related. The second part is BS and I wonder where on earth you got that from, but you might want to stop believing that source. Even logically it goes nowhere. How can gun laws NOT influence gun violence on some level? If someone doesn't have a gun he isn't going to be able to create "gun violence". If you narrow it down to the US in its present state...yes there are way too many guns in circulation to "solve" the problem with gun laws. Criminals will get their hands on guns regardless, but you can make a gun unappealing or at least more difficult to own for the average Joe who is unlikely to ever need it. That will cut down on accidents and deaths by "gun owner lost his marbles / went berzerk / 17-year old nerd steals parents gun and goes on a rampage" Again, if you need a gun to improve your own safety, something is pretty fucked up with where you live and you might want to address that instead of living in a Hollywood fantasy. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
550 Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 (edited) Well, I almost think it would be more, there is no correlation between CCW state vs NON-CCW state in gun violence. I mean look at Texas compared to Chicago. Derp :-/ Chicago is such a cesspool. And yes, a City vs a State Edited January 18, 2013 by 550 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gideon35T Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 JC - Well, we could look at Australia. They recently enacted sweeping gun laws and within years the government department which lead the changes admitted that it had ZERO effect on gun related crimes. More importantly, EVERY other class of crime has seen a minimum of a 20% increase in recent years. The most staggering being home invasions. A crime which was largely unknown in that country now has a firm niche in criminal society. Criminals know that they can bust down your door and not be shot. UK - oulaws guns ... stabbings skyrocket ... bans many pocket knives ... stabbings with kitchen knives skyrocket ... make all kitchen knives rounded on the end ... beatings with clubs are now increasing ... ... ... Removing a weapon type from a society just makes those who are still willing to commit violent crimes choose different weapons. And, shows a marked statistical increase in the net number of violent crimes. We can argue different countries definitions of violent crimes if you like but I'm sure we can both agree that stabbings and beatings with blunt object fit the bill regardless. Baseball bats still kill several times more in this country every year compared to firearms. Also, >50% of firearm deaths are suicides. The difference is even larger than it appears at a glance therefor. The FBI database also shows a nice correlation that is easily overlooked. >80% of gun crimes per capita are commited in cities which have a population >100,000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caanglin Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rRSUEaLKvA&list=UUVJzgJ1u9YANbvHDHryZO2g&index=12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gideon35T Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 The problem is LIBERAL IDIOTS ! Virginia Del. Joe Morrissey, a Democrat hailing from the Richmond area, showed off the weapon while pushing for tighter gun-control laws ... http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blogs/virginia-lawmaker-brandishes-ak-47-house-floor-145619331--abc-news-politics.html?bcmt_s=m#ugccmt-container Follow the link and enlarge the picture. Bringing the gun into the building, felony. Brandishing a firearm, felony. Thumb on the trigger, bolt closed, magazine inserted, and safety OFF ! THESE are the people that are pushing for gun control. The problem is LIBERAL IDIOTS ! Virginia Del. Joe Morrissey, a Democrat hailing from the Richmond area, showed off the weapon while pushing for tighter gun-control laws ... http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blogs/virginia-lawmaker-brandishes-ak-47-house-floor-145619331--abc-news-politics.html?bcmt_s=m#ugccmt-container Follow the link and enlarge the picture. Bringing the gun into the building, felony. Brandishing a firearm, felony. Thumb on the trigger, bolt closed, magazine inserted, and safety OFF ! THESE are the people that are pushing for gun control. I bet Chuck would have grabbed that thing out of his hands and beat him with it. After clearing the weapon of course. I remember when I got flagged by another guy while on convoy. The front site post hit him square in the face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burn-E Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 Must.Limit.Car. speeds.... Mandate only 1 oz. bottles of alcohol. All knives must be dull. Waiting periods for hammers. Revoke the Laws of Gravity (falls kill lots each year!) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Riker Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 Well, I almost think it would be more, there is no correlation between CCW state vs NON-CCW state in gun violence. I mean look at Texas compared to Chicago. Derp :-/ Chicago is such a cesspool. And yes, a City vs a State Well... having lived here... I have to say, it's not a fair comparison. However, there's an interesting comparison I'd like to make. Houston has guns and has crime. Chicago has guns, and has crime. Do gun laws influence gun crime?? Certainly, but it's a slight influence IMO rather than no influence or total influence. Often, gun laws have their biggest affect on law abiding citizens. For example, the new paperwork is very very concerning. It's things like that... pointless trivial regulations, that we should be doing away with. The government asks if you are a member of an anti-government organization, which means they must be concerned about this to a degree. Good. They should be. In general, though... having lived in Texas for a time now, I will say, at least outside of the large cities or in the smaller ones, I'm quite ok with guns being everywhere. People are very courteous...including law enforcement. To this point... I'd like to point out that when you have law enforcement with guns and civilians without, a "superiority complex" (known phenomena) takes place. This was found in a Stanford psychological study, and the results were pretty shocking. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burn-E Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 Eh, you have to have an enclosed environment with specific conditions for Zimbardo's findings to be relevant. You're stretching on this one Lucas to apply it to the broader world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts