flyfishing3 Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 Irresponsible gun owners. circles back to better screening, you can't just go in and buy whatever you want without a background check up, proof of gun safe, etc. just because you have a bug in your ass you want a gun. ps. we need to stop gun buyers getting a discount to fill out a NRA app when purchasing. This is one reason why the NRA member numbers are so high. Most of you gun guys here are not members i believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
550 Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 I'm not a member, no. But here in Illinois, there is a hold back time period for a handgun purchase, and rifle/shotgun: 3 days and 1 day respectively. Also, Illinois is a FOID state, so we do have background checks at minimum for when we get our FOID card. Also, and on top of everything else, in CCW states, you tend to get finger printed when you apply for a CCW permit. ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burn-E Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 So Mike, you should compare tragedies in Illinois (where all of the background checks and ID and mental health check have to happen to get a FOID and then the cards are validated at each purchase with a call to the State Police) to tragedies in States where rules are looser. My bet is that a truly random sampling would show there are irresponsible gun owners across the board and the tragedies are indifferent to whether all of those checks are done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfishing3 Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 my point is simpler: too many guns= too many tragedy's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burn-E Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 And Mike, it's not the membership dues that are driving NRA lobbying efforts. It's the investments / contributions made by the gun manufacturers so eliminating sign-up by new members for discounts will not diminish the power (money) of the NRA. my point is simpler: fewer guns = fewer tragedies Your approach to resolving it though isn't working in Illinois. It will put up a speed bump to purchases but it won't diminish gun ownership significantly. You have to change the culture if you want to reduce gun ownership and right now the NRA and Obama collectively are fanning the flames. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfishing3 Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 A. everything you've stated is true. somebody here needs to be the voice of the dead children. (i'm trying my best. ) it just ridiculous the culture of BELIEFS with this crap. You have a right to a gun, not an arsenal, i have a right not to be killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
550 Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 Just because a person has an arsenal doesn't mean you're going to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfishing3 Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 just playing the odds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burn-E Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 just playing the odds Actually, it's not clear there's a correlation between the number of guns owned and the likelihood of a tragedy / accident in the home. My bet is that the majority of tragedies happen where there is only one gun in the home, a handgun, and the owner bought one because they felt they needed one but didn't take seriously the approach to training and educating themselves as well as ensuring the gun is properly secured. Where there are multiple guns in the home the owner is more likely to have them properly secured and ensure training around them. Chuck of course would just say it's dumb poor people who cause the problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfishing3 Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 more guns sold, the greater the chance we all die. numbers don't lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Che'_Moderator Posted February 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burn-E Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 Yes, the life expectancy of those who live in a home with a gun decreases. You'll love these stats Mike: Living in a home where there are guns increases the risk of homicide by 40 to 170% and the risk of suicide by 90 to 460%.1 Guns kept in the home are more likely to be involved in a fatal or nonfatal unintentional shooting, criminal assault or suicide attempt than to be used to injure or kill in self-defense.2 Having a gun in the home is associated with an increased risk of firearm homicide and firearm suicide in the home, regardless of storage practice, type of gun, or number of guns in the home.3 Rather than conferring protection, guns in the home are associated with an increase in the risk of homicide by a family member or intimate acquaintance.4 The relative risk of dying from an unintentional gunshot injury is 3.7 times higher for adults living in homes with guns, with handguns in the home posing a particular threat.5 States with higher rates of household firearm ownership have significantly higher homicide victimization rates.6 People who keep a gun in their home are almost twice as likely to die in a gun-related homicide and 16 times more likely to use a gun to commit suicide than people without a gun in their home.7 A study of firearm storage patterns in U.S. homes found that “[o]f the homes with children and firearms, 55% were reported to have one or more firearms in an unlocked place,” and 43% reported keeping guns without a trigger lock in an unlocked place.8 A recent study on adult firearm storage practices in U.S. homes found that over 1.69 million children and youth under age 18 are living in homes with loaded and unlocked firearms.9 Keeping a firearm unloaded and locked, with the ammunition stored in a locked location separate from the firearm, significantly decreases the risk of suicide and unintentional firearm injury and death involving both long guns and handguns. These safe storage measures serve as a “protective effect” and assist in reducing youth suicide and unintentional injury in homes with children and teenagers where guns are stored.10 The presence of unlocked guns in the home increases the risk not only of accidental gun injuries but of intentional shootings as well. One study found that more than 75% of the guns used in youth suicide attempts and unintentional injuries were stored in the residence of the victim, a relative, or a friend.11 I'm not blaming guns here, just stating the obvious correlation which in this case is connected to causation. People don't blame the cars but they do blame the alcohol and restrict it. And yes Chuck, it largely comes down to dumb people doing dumb things. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fudge_Brownie Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 +1 for stats, even though they argue the opposite of what I want to hear.The issue is trying to fix stupid, which is basically along the lines of chuck's argument about the poor. Except he equates poor with stupid, and I don't. Well, not anywhere near the degree he does. Without the guns, dumb things will still happen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfishing3 Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 we need aaron car blowers maybe, again, i'm ok with that also.+Without the guns, dumb things will still happen. no doubt, you just have a better %/chance of living through it. a hammer to the head, i have a fair to middlan chance to live. a hot shot of lead to the head, not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
550 Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 Smartgunlaws.com IS that a website against or for guns? Because stats are kind of... well, they can be made up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts