Commander Riker Posted May 9, 2013 Report Share Posted May 9, 2013 So in your mind what's the difference Lucas? Having to think a bit about that. Mostly, I'd like to see possession decriminalized (within reason). By that, no drugs in school zones, in court, etc. Primarily it would be to stop the completely failed war on drugs, and stop us from paying to put someone in a cage for having a plant. We pay tax dollars to arrest... put someone on trial... put them in a cage... feed them... wash them... and babysit them because of a PLANT. (edit... decriminalization instead of legalization in order to keep companies from producing drugs... example Marlboro) Now other drugs are not a plant, and are certainly terrible... however, the war on drugs has still failed. Not to diatribe about a completely different issue, but I am just comparing it to where we are thinking about going and why I'm against any kind of weapons ban. If you ban weapons (or specific types or accessories).. you just create more busy work for police officers... more reasons to arrest... put someone on trial... put them in a cage... feed them... wash them... and babysit them because of program that fails to really catch anyone anyways. If I want drugs... I can still get them... many many years after they have been "banned." So... if we ban any portion of weapons... the problem is... after many many years, the "bad guys" that everyone worries about will still get them because your government has proved to you it cannot stop trafficking. It can just put people in jail... and even make a business out of it. Why in dafuq I'm still posting in this thread, I have no idea. I'm sure I'm being laughed at quite a bit... but that's ok. I'd just like to think we could aspire to help one other, rather then let greed run this place. Oh wait... babies are being raped on fire in Africa. Our problems are meaningless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfishing3 Posted May 9, 2013 Report Share Posted May 9, 2013 maybe we need a legalize it thread in Political. My view has completely changed on weed at least. when i was young and followed the dead i was A OK with making it legal. now in my 40's with 3 kids, i'm completely against making it easy for them to get. I'm not going to get into the GATEWAY discussion. Its NO good for you in general, no reason you need it other than MED's, but i guess the same could be said for booze. I would never support legalizing COKE, H, Crack etc. no way no how. i just went and started a W, legalize it thread and just remembered that Chuck doesn't want that even discussed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burn-E Posted May 9, 2013 Report Share Posted May 9, 2013 My wife asked me this question the other day. What difference would it make if we legalized all drugs? My comment was, all drugs are legal when used in the correct context. Marijuana isn't very addictive like nicotine, caffeine, heroin or cocaine is and it's not really a gateway drug. Now some people do have addictive personalities / chemical issues that can make it addictive for them though. But you're rolling the dice because you never know who has the potential to become addicted. So at what point do you protect society from harming themselves because drug use leads to all kinds of other ills for society (think meth heads stealing to support their habit), and at what point do you say this is a question of personal responsibility? If we completely legalized all drugs for recreational use then four good things would happen: 1. The market for illicit drug sales would largely dry up 2. This would put some very violent people out of work and there would be some level of blowback 3. Violence around drugs would still persist because people would want them for themselves and they would want to sell it - but it would be akin to violence around tobacco 4. The prison population would dissolve down to ~20% of what it is today. However, society would then have to struggle with how to deal with addicts. Which if our track record with alcohol is monitored, we're not that great at it in general but for those who really want to extract themselves help exists. I'm of the firm opinion that you teach children correct principles and allow them to govern themselves. So compassion is more called for than prosecution where addiction exists. But I don't think drug experimentation, let alone using alcohol or tobacco does anything for anyone. So I see no reason for it and have no real issues with limiting availability. But let's not kid ourselves, any kid who wants it can find pot, cigarettes and alcohol. Including your kids Mike. But we won't go down the path of how mixing gun ownership with any of the above substances (except for Nicotine and Caffeine) can lead to bad results. Just to get us back on topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfishing3 Posted May 9, 2013 Report Share Posted May 9, 2013 oh i know, and we have discussions all the time about it. I/we can only do our best and hope it takes root. Drugs/ alcohol in generally are no good. if you've had 2 strikes and you're caught with a minor amount, too bad, you've had your chance's in my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burn-E Posted May 9, 2013 Report Share Posted May 9, 2013 if you've had 2 strikes and you're caught with a minor amount, too bad, you've had your chance's in my book. I don't get this Mike. It totally lacks proportionality and fails to consider the challenges of addiction. Once an addict always an addict and falling off the (Volvo ) wagon happens all to often not due to a lack of will power but due to the power that addiction has over many people. Possession can be charged as a misdemeanor or as a felony depending on the circumstances. And when you're an under privileged youth the probability - given you live in a city where people are packed together - that you'll be caught within the proximity of a school or park or public housing increases astronomically. So there all kinds of injustices and inequities that are perpetuated by the existing laws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfishing3 Posted May 9, 2013 Report Share Posted May 9, 2013 addiction can be controlled, its not an involuntary reaction. i'm for many types of support for addiction, i've seen it control peoples lives before. this throws to left field and might surprise you i'm saying this, but i'm for Drug testing for anybody that receives Govt support. As long as something is illegal, the govt should not have a hand in supporting an illegal activity. Possession can be charged as a misdemeanor or as a felony depending on the circumstances. but generally, its the amount. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
550 Posted May 9, 2013 Report Share Posted May 9, 2013 this throws to left field and might surprise you i'm saying this, but i'm for Drug testing for anybody that receives Govt support. +1 You want help, submit for a test, shouldn't be too hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burn-E Posted May 9, 2013 Report Share Posted May 9, 2013 You'll get no argument from me there. But then again, what do we do with the addict? Addiction can be controlled but it's also dependent on removing yourself from the circumstances that lead to consuming - which can be more difficult for some than others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honeyman Posted May 9, 2013 Report Share Posted May 9, 2013 In my view this all leads back to the family unit. If you're taking care of business at home, our society and gov. wouldn't have to create elaborate industries to protect us from ourselves. Thus entrenched, the industry becomes more important than the cause, and the problem continues to perpetuate itself. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gideon35T Posted May 9, 2013 Report Share Posted May 9, 2013 In my view this all leads back to the family unit. If you're taking care of business at home, our society and gov. wouldn't have to create elaborate industries to protect us from ourselves. Thus entrenched, the industry becomes more important than the cause, and the problem continues to perpetuate itself. The systematic destruction of the family unit (perpetrated over the past several decades) is the reason we're at where we are today ... In the shitter ... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Riker Posted May 9, 2013 Report Share Posted May 9, 2013 You cannot ignore the fact that as much as you want your government to ban something... whatever it is... 8 balls of coke... or magazines larger then x amounts of rounds... your government will ultimately do a terrible job and FAIL. They cannot do it... at best they can do a half assed job that at the end of the day, will be more effort then result. I agree completely that it leads back to family... or in the least, how we treat one another. Just because I'm not family with someone, doesn't mean I do not want to help them. (please note, my super jacked up sense of family probably makes me more prone to wanting to help friends anyhow) To those who say there is no good use for drugs... you're just a square, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honeyman Posted May 9, 2013 Report Share Posted May 9, 2013 Everything in moderation, my man. Governments tend to be cumbersome. If you don't govern yourself in an appropriate way, then something less sensitive and articulate is going to govern you. Don't get me started on indiscriminate procreation. There's lots of people that don't give shit about anything. But back to gun control.... As a gun man I'm totally for reasonable controls of it. The elephant in the room for me is that anyone who values these items (whether for good or bad) already has tons of it. Guns and ammo. Private citizens. What are you going to do about that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Riker Posted May 10, 2013 Report Share Posted May 10, 2013 Good points, I suppose. Just because I feel I can self govern... doesn't mean there isn't 10, 100, or 1000 people for me that give zero shits and bleed the system. That that behavior they exhibit in an odd way then justifies the terrible system in place. I just think in general we could do better. I have a gun and ammunition. Considering buying a co-worker's pistol and ammo......... without paperwork. dun dun dun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burn-E Posted May 10, 2013 Report Share Posted May 10, 2013 But, but, but, that's ILLEGAL. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Riker Posted May 10, 2013 Report Share Posted May 10, 2013 But, but, but, that's ILLEGAL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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