Zimmerman V. Florida

[flyfishing3]

Oh this is going to end badly for GZ but not because he his guilty.

[Matty Moo]

Casey Anthony has had no problem not getting killed and every person in the world hates here. I'm pretty sure he'll just go somewhere and lay low for a long time.

[Burn-E]

You have been in Chicago too long. This is FL. He will be fine.

Unless the Bath Salt Zombies get him...

[S8ET6]

Unless the Bath Salt Zombies get him...

He doesn't need to worry about the bath zombies... it's his chickens coming home to roost that he'll need to be concerned about.

Everyone knows that he packing and that he has pulled the trigger before... so all that they'll do is kill him, put a gun in his hand and then claim that they feared for their life.

"Stand your ground" will have come full circle for Mr. Zimmerman

edit: and then we'll see how Chuck spins the story then. LOL

[caanglin]

In other Fla shooting news.

"Fla. mom gets 20 years for firing warning shots"

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57433184/fla-mom-gets-20-years-for-firing-warning-shots/

[S8ET6]

In other Fla shooting news.

"Fla. mom gets 20 years for firing warning shots"

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57433184/fla-mom-gets-20-years-for-firing-warning-shots/

I was gonna mention this case and ask the VS legal "experts" why she wasn't afforded the same protection under "stand your ground" as Zimmerman appeared to have benefited from... can someone please explain that to me?

[caanglin]

They should have you some Ctrl C + Ctrl V in the morning.

[Che'_Moderator]

You give the fringe element too much credit for having an attention span.

I was gonna mention this case and ask the VS legal "experts" why she wasn't afforded the same protection under "stand your ground" as Zimmerman appeared to have benefited from... can someone please explain that to me?

She left the house togo to the car to get a firearm... thats why. She should have pled batter spouse WAY before claiming self defense, but thank you for playing

[S8ET6]

She left the house togo to the car to get a firearm... thats why. She should have pled batter spouse WAY before claiming self defense, but thank you for playing

Wait.. whut?

I guess that the logic used to justify a conviction was something along the lines of: "She left the dangerous situation to go get a firearm - and if she truly feared for her life then she shouldn't have returned back to the dangerous situation." Is that correct?

Or are you saying that she's in jail now because she didn't plead correctly?

[Matty Moo]

Wait.. whut?

I guess that the logic used to justify a conviction was something along the lines of: "She left the dangerous situation to go get a firearm - and if she truly feared for her life then she shouldn't have returned back to the dangerous situation." Is that correct?

Or are you saying that she's in jail now because she didn't plead correctly?

That sums it up. She should have just left, she left anyway but then came back.

All the crazy shit that happens in Florida isn't hard to understand once you figure out that most of the population is transient in a way. People go there to get "a fresh start" but take their issues/problems with them. Most of the shitty people that I've met in my time have all moved to Florida and then back at some point, all of them went to start over thinking it's some sort of paradise and everything will change for them. Nothing changes because shit always remains shit. I'm not including the retirees in that, but even some of them are trash too.

The only real bad thing about Florida is some of the people that live there.

[Yellow95]

The only real bad thing about Florida is some of the people that live there.

Don't you live in a state with a city called Detroit in it?

[Matty Moo]

Don't you live in a state with a city called Detroit in it?

That wasn't a slam on FL, just the constant stream of dirtbags in and out of the place.

Detroit's a lost cause, most of us in MI that aren't within 30 minutes of it just act like the place doesn't exist. Detroit is easy enough to deal with since all of the shit that happens there tends to stay there and not spill out more than a few minutes out of the city.

[rcstdad]

If you retreat a deadly force situation, retrieve a firearm, then return and use deadly force, there is no way you can justify fear of peril or death. Once you leave the scene, your presumption of such fear ceases.

[Burn-E]

So question for the overinformed, please explain to me why the man on the street views this as an unjust verdict? Indulge the question and let's examine the agenda biases that are driving people's perceptions of the conclusion to the criminal portion of this case.

And for the record, before you accuse me of bias in any specific direction, go back and review what I've written in this particular thread and you'll see that I've done nothing but advocate for innocence before proven guilty and full consideration of the actions, behaviors, and attitudes of both Martin and Zimmerman. You and I as distant observers have the benefit of seeing all the facts and "facts" that were presented both in the trial and in the media and how each detail can be manipulated to support a particular view.

I don't believe either Zimmerman or Martin are the innocents their supporters would present and I believe their personal attitudes brought on a conflict that could have been avoided. But I also don't think Zimmerman was inappropriate in calling the Police when as a community watch person he observed sketchy behavior on the part of an unknown young man who was cruising through Zimmerman's neighborhood. The only real question is who started the fight - which we never really determined.

The Verdict:

The verdict determined that George Zimmerman acted in compliance with his rights according to the Stand Your Ground law in Florida. Let's summarize that law for the purposes of properly characterizing what the 6 middle aged women on that Jury had to decide:

The Florida law is not a gun law. Period. It contains zero references to guns or shooting, unless you feel propagandistically compelled to count one of those ubiquitous legislative “Whereases” that references the Florida Constitution’s “right of the people to bear arms…”

The Florida law is a self-defense, self-protection law. It has four key components:

1. It establishes that law-abiding residents and visitors may legally presume the threat of bodily harm or death from anyone who breaks into a residence or occupied vehicle and may use defensive force, including deadly force, against the intruder.
2. In any other place where a person “has a right to be,” that person has “no duty to retreat” if attacked and may “meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.”
3. In either case, a person using any force permitted by the law is immune from criminal prosecution or civil action and cannot be arrested unless a law enforcement agency determines there is probable cause that the force used was unlawful.
4. If a civil action is brought and the court finds the defendant to be immune based on the parameters of the law, the defendant will be awarded all costs of defense.

So the second and third clauses are the guiding principles here.

Question:

Would the verdict be just if this was a black man who shot another black man in self defense?

- George Zimmerman is NOT white in spite of how he was characterized in the trial by Martin's friend. He's mixed Latino / African American if anything.

- 91% of homicides among African Americans are the result of black on black crime (see FBI statistics on sex/race of offender & victim here)

- 83% of homicides among whites are the result of white on white crime (drawing no conclusions here, just stating facts)

So who is killing all these young black men that apparently it is open season on now that the verdict came through in this case?

9 times out of 10 it's someone who looks exactly like this boy:

Question:

Is the verdict unjust because the handling of this specific trial was colored by race?

- The judge refused to allow race be the issue that turned this trial into a circus

- How does race have anything to do with the conflict that occurred?

Question:

What gives anyone the impression that Zimmerman profiled Trayvon Martin by race?

- Zimmerman only stated Martin's race in response to the 911 dispatcher's question asking the race.

- The gated community where he lived and was attempting to protect was by no means a "white enclave." The population in the development at the time of the shooting, was about 49% non-Hispanic white, 23% Hispanic (of any race), 20% black, and 5% Asian, according to Census figures.

Question:

Would a community watch captain be unjustified in calling the police if he saw an unknown teenager looking like one of these guys walking through the neighborhood seeming to check out homes?

What if it was a young man looking like the African American teen up in the photo above?

Is profiling wrong only when it's someone who looks like me/you? Or is profiling an appropriate tool to use when you know how the typical suspects act / dress / behave and you witness behavior that raises a red flag?

Question:

Who was the real Trayvon Martin and who is the real George Zimmerman?

[survolvo]

I'm wondering how anyone can justify the actions that have been taken in places such as Oakland since the verdict. It is not helping anything by smashing businesses windows, lighting things on fire, vandalizing police cars, ect. Pretty mush starting a riot over the whole thing. If anything I see it as making things much worse, and leading to more racial profiling.

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2013/07/13/100s-gather-for-zimmerman-verdict-protest-march-in-san-francisco/

For some reason I don't think it would have gone this way if the verdict was the other way around.

I'm not trying to come off as racist or anything. I just think that everyone turned this case into more of a racial judgement, rather than looking at the actual facts of it all. Would everyone have the same opinion if it was Hispanic or Caucasian kid killed but a African American or Caucasian man?