Zimmerman V. Florida

[Fishey]

didn't read it all, but my view.

it all starts and stops with him being told not pursue. Everything after was a result of his personal profiling..

Little known fact. GZ has called 911 47 times over the last 6 years on black kids in the neighborhood. I think he had enough and wanted to lower the numbers.

either way, i said he wasn't going to jail.

First, it was 46 calls and only 17 were 911 call the rest non-emergency and none of those 911 calls were for "black kids" only non-emergency calls.

Here is the full report.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/03/22/george-zimmerman-s-history-of-911-calls-a-complete-log.html

Secondly, All the evidence points to the fact that George didn't follow him and that TM actually confronted George Zimmerman as he was walking back to his truck. If TM wanted to get away he had plenty of opportunity and time.

http://www.hlntv.com/interactive/2013/06/17/zimmerman-trayvon-map-interactive

Edited July 16, 2013 by Fishey

[Che'_Moderator]

Chuck, why do you walk around expecting to be assaulted?

Kinda my point.

She expected to be assaulted in her own home. That was seriously her defense. LOL thats why shes spending her adult life in jail. And I can honestly say I have never not needed a weapon and been upset I had one.

[rcstdad]

I agree. The problem with applying your logic to this incident is that she didn't use deadly force - she got 20 years for firing warning shots into the ceiling

In Florida, any firing of a gun (in such situation), either warning shots or at a person, is considered deadly force. Agg Battery with deadly weapon at minimum, easy felony 2. If you have to fire a shot - don't aim at the ceiling....

Edited July 16, 2013 by rcstdad

[flyfishing3]

Here is the full report.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/03/22/george-zimmerman-s-history-of-911-calls-a-complete-log.html

you read that call log. what a wacko. i'd hate live near a baby like that.

eeewww, they are having a pool party at the club house. He'd lose him mind with my kids around lol.

[rmorse]

Alain, I think that the root issue, both at the Macro and Micro level, is power. And historically in the South, power has been a black or white issue. This case, for all intents and purposes is a black and white issue - both literally and figuratively - but, ironically, Zimmerman (Hispanic) isn't categorized as either of those races. He may self-identify with one or more races, but the media has painted him as a white guy. (Side note: I think that the overwhelming silence of the Hispanic community on this issue is deafening)

I'm really getting tired of telling people this, but....

Hispanic is NOT a race. It's an ethnicity. He is a white guy, who happens to be hispanic.

[Burn-E]

So the lone black prosecutor in the OJ Simpson trial, Christopher Darden expresses his opinion on the Zimmerman outcome:

The summary?

"Zimmerman racially profiled Martin and justice can still be served either in a civil case or a Federal Civil Rights case."

WTF?

This is what blows me away. WHY IS IT ABOUT RACE? Even if the Police of Sanford were to admit to consistently racial profiling, Zimmerman was not a cop, he was a regular citizen, and if you look at his calls to the Police he tattled on EVERYONE. Regardless of race.

I get why people want this to be about race. I get it. But what they're saying is that every average citizen who develops a suspicion of any black kid who walks down the street through their neighborhood is racially motivated in their suspicion.

And I reject that notion.

Look, I sympathize with Zimmerman. Some punk just broke into mine and my neighbor's cars last week. A few months ago, someone stole tools right out of a contractor's van parked in my other neighbor's driveway in the middle of the day. And last year someone did a string of open and grabs from other neighbors' cars down the street.

So if I see any teenager / adult I who I don't recognize, black, white, latino, asian, I'm wary as to whether they're up to no good. And if I were to call the cops on him, it wouldn't be because he's black.

The Zimmerman case was a race case. Zimmerman would not have followed Trayvon Martin if he were not black. The media did not make this case a race case. The family of Trayvon Martin did not make this a race case. George Zimmerman did.

So how the hell does Christopher Fucking Darden or any other would be armchair lawyer spouting their nonsense from their personal bully pulpit know that George Zimmerman was racially motivated in his suspicions?

THEY DON'T. They are projecting their own scenarios and experience onto this particular case and trying to crucify this stupid man for his choice of following a black kid who was behaving in a suspicious manner in a neighborhood that had experienced a string of burglaries.

Did Zimmerman attack Martin or did Martin jump Zimmerman? They don't know but they believe Martin was justified for being fearful if he did attack Zimmerman first because Zimmerman was following him like (as their story continues) white men have hunted down black men for centuries.

This narrative is all fucked up. And I'm pissed to see them turning this into a Civil Rights case because there's no clear evidence other than the popular clamor that it deserves to be.

I'm really getting tired of telling people this, but....

Hispanic is NOT a race. It's an ethnicity. He is a white guy, who happens to be hispanic.

Tell that to all the little brown kids who happen to speak Spanish and whose family come from south of the border and regularly are discriminated against. Whether it's a race or an ethnicity, people are talking about color here and the question is power as Darnell mentioned.

[rmorse]

Tell that to all the little brown kids who happen to speak Spanish and whose family come from south of the border and regularly are discriminated against. Whether it's a race or an ethnicity, people are talking about color here.

Ok? It's still not a race. That's like saying being Jewish is a race, because they're discriminated against. And please point out where I said Hispanics aren't being discriminated. And do you really need me to post pictures of a white, a brown and a black hispanic?

I responded to the post that was saying "but, ironically, Zimmerman (Hispanic) isn't categorized as either of those races." He was saying Hispanic was a race. He was suggesting that Zimmerman isn't caucasian; that Zimmerman was Hispanic.

[Burn-E]

You're introducing an irrelevant argument to the conversation - that's why I called you out.

Darnell's point was that Zimmerman, as a Hispanic is being labeled a white American racist for his suspicions toward Martin. As a minority, one would think he would be less likely to be a racist due to his own encounters with racial discrimination. That's why he's surprised that the Hispanic community is taking this treatment sitting down rather then responding.

Then again, Zimmerman lives in Florida, where the majority of the people look like him, so maybe that conclusion is wrong too.

Race is a convoluted concept unless you're talking black vs. white in the very American, very Southern perspective. And it is that concept which is under consideration for Civil Rights purposes here. It is that concept and the power relationship historically attached to it that has people up in arms. Even if the case doesn't warrant that type of attention.

[rmorse]

You're introducing an irrelevant argument to the conversation - that's why I called you out.

Darnell's point was that Zimmerman, as a Hispanic is being labeled a white American racist for his suspicions toward Martin. As a minority, one would think he would be less likely to be a racist due to his own encounters with racial discrimination. That's why he's surprised that the Hispanic community is taking this treatment sitting down rather then responding.

Then again, Zimmerman lives in Florida, where the majority of the people look like him, so maybe that conclusion is wrong too.

Race is a convoluted concept unless you're talking black vs. white in the very American, very Southern perspective. And it is that concept which is under consideration for Civil Rights purposes here. It is that concept and the power relationship historically attached to it that has people up in arms. Even if the case doesn't warrant that type of attention.

I understand that and I agree with that. However, he was also suggesting that his race is not White; it's hispanic. I didn't disagree with his argument at all. I'm just tired of people saying that Z isn't "white", he's "hispanic."

That's like saying he's not white, he's jewish.

[Burn-E]

I understand that and I agree with that. However, he was also suggesting that his race is not White; it's hispanic. I didn't disagree with his argument at all. I'm just tired of people saying that Z isn't "white", he's "hispanic."

That's like saying he's not white, he's jewish.

We've already explored the question of race and Judaism fairly thoroughly, I'm not interested in devolving this thread back into that conversation. Race is a social construct and unless we're talking black and white not worth exploring in this thread.

[Mossback]

[flyfishing3]

somebody PS ted K into the TM hoodie pic. oh wait.

[rmorse]

We've already explored the question of race and Judaism fairly thoroughly, I'm not interested in devolving this thread back into that conversation. Race is a social construct and unless we're talking black and white not worth exploring in this thread.

It's a social construct, currently defined quite clearly in the Census Bureau. I appreciate your opinion, but you don't just ignore the current definition of race because you think it shouldn't be like that....

[Burn-E]

It's a social construct, currently defined quite clearly in the Census Bureau. I appreciate your opinion, but you don't just ignore the current definition of race because you think it shouldn't be like that....

It's not just my opinion - it's the educated perspective of most of the social and scientific communities of anthropology, demographics, market research, biology, cultural geography, etc. You run into a problem when you use a Government definition for a term that was built on a shaky foundation originally.

I work in Market Research for the largest (by a factor of 100) research company in the world. We do more demographic work world wide annually than the United States Census Bureau does in a decade. I definitely don't look to them for my guidance on how to define terms.

To quote myself from the thread I linked:

The notion of race is nearly as problematic from a scientific point of view as it is from a social one. European physical anthropologists of the 17th and 18th centuries proposed various systems of racial classifications based on such observable characteristics as skin color, hair type, body proportions, and skull measurements, essentially codifying the perceived differences among broad geographic populations of humans. The traditional terms for these populationsCaucasoid (or Caucasian), Mongoloid, Negroid, and in some systems Australoidare now controversial in both technical and nontechnical usage, and in some cases they may well be considered offensive. (Caucasian does retain a certain currency in American English, but it is used almost exclusively to mean "white" or "European" rather than "belonging to the Caucasian race," a group that includes a variety of peoples generally categorized as nonwhite.) The biological aspect of race is described today not in observable physical features but rather in such genetic characteristics as blood groups and metabolic processes, and the groupings indicated by these factors seldom coincide very neatly with those put forward by earlier physical anthropologists. Citing this and other pointssuch as the fact that a person who is considered black in one society might be nonblack in anothermany cultural anthropologists now consider race to be more a social or mental construct than an objective biological fact.

The popularly held view of human races ignores the fact that anatomical traits supposedly identifying a particular race are often found extensively in other populations as well. This is due to the fact that similar natural selection factors in different parts of the world often result in the evolution of similar adaptations. For instance, intense sunlight in tropical latitudes has selected for darker skin color as a protection from intense ultraviolet radiation. As a result, the dark brown skin color characteristic of sub-Saharan Africans is also found among unrelated populations in the Indian subcontinent, Australia, New Guinea, and elsewhere in the Southwest Pacific.

[Yellow95]

Little known fact. GZ has called 911 47 times over the last 6 years on black kids in the neighborhood. I think he had enough and wanted to lower the numbers.

Source? If you say the internets you should be permabanned. OK I m a little late to this party.

Also here is a must see.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpUAFGqwiJY&feature=share