Minimum Wage - What's A Fair Wage?

[Piston Slapper]

Yeah, these corporation want to squeeze and squeeze because there's no unions, forgetting the biggest union of them all is the voters.

[Burn-E]

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2014/06/seattle_city_council_passes_15.html#incart_river

$15 minimum wage will be in effect by 4/1/2015.

Current highest is SF with $10.42.

Guess cost of living will increase with that new law for Seattle.

Just read it this morning on the front page of the Seattle Times.

http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2023753163_wagevotexml.html

The quotes from the ice cream shop owner are fascinating. She's running six shops so she must know how to run a business. But she udderly (pun intended) fails at understanding the economics of what it means to raise wages for all workers by setting a floor. Hers is a luxury item that people will splurge on from time to time with little impact if she has to raise prices some.. But when the minimum wage rises across the board suddenly all commodity prices go up and as a result those who get hit the hardest will be the lower income yet again.

Gives me reason to reconsider moving out to Seattle.

[Black Betty]

I don't really like the argument that "X job only gets $yy so then you can't flip burgers for $15" This is the same argument kids use to justify why they need the latest XBox.

I think the problem really lies in that wages in general have not kept up with inflation/ profits. There's a large gap growing between the classes. I don't believe Fire fighters, EMT's should get paid less than Fast Food workers. I think both of their salaries are F'd. The problem lies in that labor now is cheap, and this is a free market, you can want more $$ but when Jim is willing to take minimum wage then you loose a job.

So I think 2 things need to be solved. 1) the salary gap that has grown. and 2) unemployment.

Problem is we as a society keep moving towards eliminating jobs (for profit). Automatic self checkouts, ATM's, ect and we keep pushing forward without looking at the human consequences. Those of you that know me, know I work in Trucking and the self driving car really scares me, it will eliminate tens of thousands of jobs. Trucking has been a huge employer of veterans as well.

If I can go way out with my views; These problems will only cease to exist when we stop being a cash-based value society and start measuring by another stick.

[Burn-E]

What would that stick look like? Barter?

[Kevin.]

I still think that minimum wage exists to motivate you to get a better more sustainable job with better pay, I agree that it hasn't been keeping up with inflation and cost of living but in all reality you're not supposed to live off of it.......

[JOHN_CENA]

This issue is so incredibly (economically) complex that I still am not sure about my position on it. I think minimum wage is ok at 7.25 an hour (at least where I live.) For a pimple faced teenager living with mom and dad, 7.25 / hr. will provide them pocket money, because the wage is fair for what labor is done. At the same time, you have older workers (25+) that have not have the opportunites to further them selves in a vocational / college education. What I have a problem with is that people in the 25+ bracket are currently under employed by walmart and other companies, but need to facilitate the use public assistance for housing, food, etc. You cannot gain back hours of your life, but working scanning goods / stacking boxes / etc. and getting a paycheck, but still being forced to use public assistance is incredibly unfair to both tax payers and the employee. This issue is so complex, I still cant grasp it lol

[Black Betty]

What would that stick look like? Barter?

no idea. Barter still places a value on certain items over others. This is more of a dream than anything. Our society is so built up upon the value of certain goods/services it would be impossible to change.

In the meantime though how do you combat the reducing job pool? you can tell the fry cook to learn electronics so he can fix the robots that replace him, but the principle remains that the job pool is getting smaller due to automation.

And I'm as guilty as anyone else of using the automation services. My first job was a cashier at a grocery store (@ $8/hr in 2006) and I prefer the self checkouts. I can't remember the last time I set foot in an actual bank either.

[Chilled man]

I don't really like the argument that "X job only gets $yy so then you can't flip burgers for $15" This is the same argument kids use to justify why they need the latest XBox.

I think the problem really lies in that wages in general have not kept up with inflation/ profits. There's a large gap growing between the classes. I don't believe Fire fighters, EMT's should get paid less than Fast Food workers. I think both of their salaries are F'd. The problem lies in that labor now is cheap, and this is a free market, you can want more $$ but when Jim is willing to take minimum wage then you loose a job.

So I think 2 things need to be solved. 1) the salary gap that has grown. and 2) unemployment.

Problem is we as a society keep moving towards eliminating jobs (for profit). Automatic self checkouts, ATM's, ect and we keep pushing forward without looking at the human consequences. Those of you that know me, know I work in Trucking and the self driving car really scares me, it will eliminate tens of thousands of jobs. Trucking has been a huge employer of veterans as well.

If I can go way out with my views; These problems will only cease to exist when we stop being a cash-based value society and start measuring by another stick.

The whole thing is when a ATM, Self Checkout , or even Easy Pass does a better job then a human does ... well no need for that human.

Prime example for the Easy Pass is exit off the Ohio Turnpike. They have a Credit Card machine but random hours they have some grumpy as bitch of an old lady.

If there is a credit card machine why is she even employed their ?

I go in the bank maybe 1 time a year and that is due to I need to get more then $400 cash out which is utter BS.

And grocery shopping ... I put my order in ahead of time and pick it up and go and only have to deal with one person and 0 lines.

Oh, And now I have a good job and a hot girlfriend..

And that is the solution to every single problem, If you dont like your situation do something to change it.

If you dont like your wife or GF drop them and move on and find another. If you dont like your job find another one. If you dont like how much money you are making , educate yourself and plan on getting a new .

If all you do is bitch and do nothing to change the situation your in , well you can go fuck yourself and be miserable for all I care.

I agree the " minimum wage" should it be raised for cost of living sure.

Should you be able to live off 40 hrs a week working at McDonalds . No.

[Dick Dastardly]

Justin's playing catch up.

[Dick Dastardly]

The whole thing is when a ATM, Self Checkout , or even Easy Pass does a better job then a human does ... well no need for that human.

Prime example for the Easy Pass is exit off the Ohio Turnpike. They have a Credit Card machine but random hours they have some grumpy as bitch of an old lady.

If there is a credit card machine why is she even employed their ?

I go in the bank maybe 1 time a year and that is due to I need to get more then $400 cash out which is utter BS.

And grocery shopping ... I put my order in ahead of time and pick it up and go and only have to deal with one person and 0 lines.

And that is the solution to every single problem, If you dont like your situation do something to change it.

If you dont like your wife or GF drop them and move on and find another. If you dont like your job find another one. If you dont like how much money you are making , educate yourself and plan on getting a new .

If all you do is bitch and do nothing to change the situation your in , well you can go fuck yourself and be miserable for all I care.

I agree the " minimum wage" should it be raised for cost of living sure.

Should you be able to live off 40 hrs a week working at McDonalds . No.

The NY thru-way is even better.. They still have humans HANDING you you ticket when you enter..

I go to the bank to deposit my payroll check because my bank is the same as business and it goes in as cash.. ( we don't direct deposit because most of our employees wouldn't show up Friday morning because they'd be drunk.. And half of our seasonal guys don't have bank accounts) the tellers used to tell me "You know you can do that at the ATM?" And I ask them why they're trying to talk their way out of a job..

[Chilled man]

You know how to solve that problem have the check go in on Friday and be ready on Saturday ... one day wont kill everyone .

Well if it does ... they really need to adjust their priorities in life ..

[Fudge_Brownie]

I'm hesitant to accept the idea that automation is going to make available jobs permanently disappear. It will cause a rift. And maybe unskilled jobs are going to disappear. But is that a bad thing? Why keep people in unskilled jobs for the sake of putting minimum wage in their pocket?

The future might include skilled jobs in which the employer has a training program for starting employees, or an apprenticeship program. Like a truck driving company providing training, or a fire department sending you to school with the agreement you server X years for them. unfortunately, because the labor pool will expand, this would probably cause a reduction in pay for these jobs. But if the unskilled labor force is gone, and skilled jobs are paid less, does inflation adjust to reflect this?

[Che'_Moderator]

Min wage should be zero. If you raise min wage it only encourages people to hire under the table. If you want to fix the economy, let it shake out. Min wage is just a way to increase inflation even more.

[ErikS]

Min wage should be zero. If you raise min wage it only encourages people to hire under the table. If you want to fix the economy, let it shake out. Min wage is just a way to increase inflation even more.

But we are largely a service economy. If you could argue that an American worker should make X amount only when they produce Y amount, then that makes sense. The jobs we are talking about here are not skilled jobs, they require no knowledge or abilities to do. We should rename it the poverty wage, because that is what it is.

Are there poverty wage jobs that require significantly more KSA's than others?

[Che'_Moderator]

Don't care. Don't like unskilled wages, don't be unskilled. If we were not trending socialist I would agree. But with all the concessions made to help people get ahead I have no empathy for those who do not take them. My girlfriend is a teacher because she believes in helping people get ahead. Bless her for being sweet and amazing, but I still think its a lost cause when most won't help themselves.