bob82pigdog Posted March 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 Yes, good solid info that should be stickied. Hussein, do you know why it isn't the right stuff? As in chemical properties, not strong enough, not compatible with gear oil, etc.? I dug up a thread from 2012 and it sounds like a few people have had success with the pink anaerobic. Not saying it's the proper stuff but here's to hoping it holds up anyway. I still don't see any seapage on the tranny and no oil on the driveway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 Yes, good solid info that should be stickied. Hussein, do you know why it isn't the right stuff? As in chemical properties, not strong enough, not compatible with gear oil, etc.? I dug up a thread from 2012 and it sounds like a few people have had success with the pink anaerobic. Not saying it's the proper stuff but here's to hoping it holds up anyway. I still don't see any seapage on the tranny and no oil on the driveway. The only reason I can see is that the casings are not machined to the tolerance of the engine castings. Anaerobic is not intended to take up any gap that is meaningful, in .000's of an inch that is - not what would be obvious to the naked eye. Since compressed, it occupies less space than RTV, it is possible you have decreased the backlash on the shafts and diff bearings, but I can't see that really making a difference of concern, I dunno. Hey, if it don't leak, and there are no untoward noises coming from the trans /bearings, why worry? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ol' Dirty Noodle Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 Maybe it was just runoff? brake fluid is pretty good at stripping shit, might've given you a mini cleaning as it dripped down Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob82pigdog Posted March 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 (edited) The only reason I can see is that the casings are not machined to the tolerance of the engine castings. Anaerobic is not intended to take up any gap that is meaningful, in .000's of an inch that is - not what would be obvious to the naked eye. Since compressed, it occupies less space than RTV, it is possible you have decreased the backlash on the shafts and diff bearings, but I can't see that really making a difference of concern, I dunno. Hey, if it don't leak, and there are no untoward noises coming from the trans /bearings, why worry? I see. Good thoughts, Hussein! That all makes logical sense. No funky noises that I can hear. A slight whine at lower speed tight turning. I've been assuming that is LSD related. If the backlash is decreased due to the case halves being slightly closer together due to the thinner sealant, I guess that means the internals are all being pushed in on both sides by the case a bit more. Does that just mean the bearings wear out a bit faster? Or does it put additional stress on the clusters and hinder gear changing? Just trying to think about what harm it could do and how to keep on the lookout for it. Still no leaks. I'm gonna clean it all up and keep my eyes on it for fresh oil. Then try to stop worrying. I've had Volvo transmissions keeping me up at night for a long time. Edited March 12, 2015 by bob82pigdog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piston Slapper Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 Get your money back from the first shop? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrsideways Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 Sounds like the messed up the install. Pay with a credit card, take it somewhere else, preferably a Volvo specialist that's friendly to mods and is used to working with manual transmissions and have him pull the clutch and see if they put it in backwards. If they did mess something up, which they almost certainly did, call your card company and do a chargeback on them. Don't do that. That's whats wrong with this country. If they did it and they put it backwards it's on them to do it again and get it right and not charge you. Doing a charge back is next to stealing. Calling them and saying they did it wrong and asking for a refund is a MUCH better way to go about it. If they refuse threaten small claims court. They almost certainly won't want to deal with the time needed to go handle that and will much more likely credit you your money back. Shops also can't handle bad feed back on google or yelp so it's very important to them (if they have any dignity) to get it right and send you out as a happy customer. I can understand the technicians point of view as that he's dealing with something out of the ordinary and he doens't feel he did anything wrong. But make the offer, take it apart and if it's their fault it's on them, if it's your part that's wrong you'll pay twice. Being a spec clutch I'm not sure I'd take that gamble cause in my 15 years of playing with modified cars I've come to learn that spec is about = garbage. I understand it's really the only option for a upgraded clutch on your car but in every other make and model I've had them in it's always been premature failures and odd ball problems. Now as a small business owner I (thankfully rarely) have to deal with chargebacks. In my case 100% of them are false and people just trying to get something for free. Some it's down right theft, and it's the biggest nightmare dealing with the card companies and presenting my case to attempt to get paid for something. And it's a 50/50 shot on me getting paid each time. I'd really like to see it be made illegal to do a charge back. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnight Caller Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 (edited) I fully agree with Mrsideways. I too own a small parts shop and them crediting you back is the nice gentleman way to go. If not, sue them,it's perfectly legal. Edited March 12, 2015 by Midnight Caller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piston Slapper Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 If they refuse threaten small claims court.Absolutely not. The entire reason to use a card instead of cash is to be able to do a chargeback if the shop tries to screw you instead of having to deal with nonsense small claims court. If you can't handle that as a small business owner, you shouldn't have signed up for a credit card processor, but that has no bearing on this situation. I can understand the technicians point of view as that he's dealing with something out of the ordinary and he doens't feel he did anything wrong.He didn't torque down the PP! That isn't anything special for this set up, he was 100% in the wrong and trying to cover it up. If he doesn't instantly offer a refund, he should get a chargeback. Why? Because that has a much bigger hit on his reputation than yelp (lol) or small claims, his card processor will penalize him if he keeps it up, higher %'s, wait times to get his $, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ol' Dirty Noodle Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 Absolutely not. The entire reason to use a card instead of cash is to be able to do a chargeback if the shop tries to screw you instead of having to deal with nonsense small claims court. If you can't handle that as a small business owner, you shouldn't have signed up for a credit card processor, but that has no bearing on this situation. He didn't torque down the PP! That isn't anything special for this set up, he was 100% in the wrong and trying to cover it up. If he doesn't instantly offer a refund, he should get a chargeback. Why? Because that has a much bigger hit on his reputation than yelp (lol) or small claims, his card processor will penalize him if he keeps it up, higher %'s, wait times to get his $, etc. I can't believe I'm gonna say this..... Howard is right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 I can't believe I'm gonna say this..... Howard is right Absolutely. 100%. If they such much as stutter over giving you full credit as you requested for take2 (which was being more than generous) charge back the full bill from the first shop. It was their mistake that cost you time and money, and anxiety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy. Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 I would have to agree with all the above. Same thing happened to my control arm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob82pigdog Posted March 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 Yesterday morning I walked into the first shop with a receipt and write up of the work performed by the second shop and asked for them to refund me the labor that the second shop charged. It was a decent bit less than the total I paid for their original labor. I feel that that's fair as others have said above. The technician didn't believe the diagnosis. He said he remembered tightening the PP bolts. Haha. The shop manager blew up pretty quickly. I don't think I've been yelled at like that by a person who wasn't my father. It wasn't fun. He said, angrily, things like, "You don't think we'd have warrantied our labor?", "I told you we wouldn't pay for someone else's work.", "You trusted us to do this job in the first place, why didn't you trust us to fix it?", "I told you we'd take it apart and not charge you if it was our fault." He made it sound like I didn't give them the chance to make things right, and that I had been unreasonable in pulling the car and taking it somewhere else. The thing is though, last Friday when I was trying to figure out what to do, the manager displayed no confidence that they could figure it out. I knew how the technician felt; that either the old trans had to go back in factory configuration or I had to bring them the parts to create factory dual mass configuration. Both bogus options! The manager did not take a clear and confident stance that I should let them take it apart and figure out what was wrong. They had made their minds up that the newer transmission wasn’t working with a SMF and I knew they were wrong! So the fact was, yes I did not have confidence they could fix it at that point and I was ready to take it to someone that could. The tech was blinded by the mix of parts and wasn't able to imagine that he might have screwed up. When I talked with the guy it was clear that he thought any further work would be pointless since he was convinced the parts were wrong. I'm not the type of person to puff my chest up even when I KNOW I am right. There is always that small chance I'm wrong. The way I saw it was, if I screwed something up with the wrong parts, or I re-assembled the transmission incorrectly, I was gonna have to pay double labor anyway. So I had to make a choice: leave it with the same guys who insisted the parts wouldn't work and I knew they were wrong or take it to a place that I deemed competent via a phone conversation explaining the situation. Especially knowing what we know now, isn't it reasonable to assume that the first shop could have taken it apart and made the same error again? Taking it apart, putting it back together, charging me twice, and still having a car that won't go into gear and nobody knows why! I thought my best bet was to go with the new shop that I trusted to fix things. I filed a claim with the credit card company to refund the amount of the second shop’s labor. I still didn’t think it would be right to go for the whole amount. They have 11 days to respond with their side of the story at which point the card company may ask for more details like a copy of the report from the second shop, etc. I think I have a pretty good case, but who knows what defense the shop will come up with. We’ll see what happens. The whole situation has me feeling really bad. I’ve had some small things done at the first shop and I liked the people there. The manager told me to never come back, BTW. The shop put in the time, they probably need the money, and I don’t wanna be the reason they don’t make payroll or a shop owner comes crashing down on somebody. If the same thing happened with all OEM parts and I hadn't performed operation on the trans case, I would have been confident the only option was that they screwed something up. And they probably would have been confident in that, too. I would have let them take it apart, discover the loose PP bolts, put it back together and pay in full. Everyone's happy. But, that’s not the way the cookie crumbles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volvo5.0 Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 If the shop owner did tell you those things ahead of time, you should have given them the opportunity to fix it. Who cares what the tech said. Obviously he didn't want to do the job again and work for free, but the owner makes the decisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piston Slapper Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 That's what he's saying after the fact. I wouldn't trust the same tech to admit to his manager he found loose PP bolts he hadn't torqued instead of continuing to blame the mix of parts. It's like having a fox guard the henhouse. You did the right thing taking it to another (clearly more competent) shop.Don't worry about that shop, if one botched job is enough to make them go under they were already going under, it was just a matter of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volvo5.0 Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 You're probably right, the tech would have never admitted he screwed up. You wouldn't believe some of the lame stories my techs tell me to try and cover there ass. Most of the time I'll re-do the job myself so I can see what really happened, since it's my reputation that's on the line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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