Burn-E Posted May 19, 2016 Report Share Posted May 19, 2016 1 hour ago, ErikS said: I cherish my Boy Scout years. Fire, knives, camping, knots, sticks you can make into weapons, more knives. Some of my favorite memories were made on Scout camp outs and high adventures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikS Posted May 19, 2016 Report Share Posted May 19, 2016 Glad to hear you got high on your adventures too. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin. Posted May 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2016 3 hours ago, mattsk8 said: Hence the reason Psalm 14:1 says, "Only fools say in their hearts, "There is no God". Ezekiel 23:20 one of my favorite verses 2 Samuel 12:14 God kills babies if you piss him off "I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it." Albert Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Riker Posted May 19, 2016 Report Share Posted May 19, 2016 2 hours ago, ErikS said: Glad to hear you got high on your adventures too. Is it really an adventure if you're not high? lol This thread is interesting, and I like that everyone is being pretty civil with one another. ErikS posted something that is very important... that generally religion has done both great and awful things. It's hard for both sides to accept, but I think it's quite possibly the most true statement in this thread. It's unfair to say someone's religion is wrong if it brings them joy and they use/need it to do well by others. There is no question that Alain, for example, is one of the nicest people I have ever met and he would give me the shirt off his back if I ask for it... knowing it wouldn't fit! lol To be specific, mormons are probably some of the nicest religious people I've met, speaking to the different branches of christianity. At the end of the day... we're all here on a small rock in the infinite vastness of space... and while there are likely other planets with life or gods on them, we haven't found a way to get there. So we have to make this place work with what we have. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattsk8 Posted May 19, 2016 Report Share Posted May 19, 2016 57 minutes ago, Kevin. said: Ezekiel 23:20 one of my favorite verses 2 Samuel 12:14 God kills babies if you piss him off "I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it." Albert Einstein I imagine Ezekiel 23:20 is one of your favorites because you have the intellect of a 7 year old boy. As to 2 Samuel... it surprises you that God gives life, as well as takes it away? As far you googling Einstein's views on religion... you should've worked harder. Einstein had some definite beliefs in God, but was a self proclaimed agnostic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burn-E Posted May 20, 2016 Report Share Posted May 20, 2016 16 hours ago, ErikS said: Glad to hear you got high on your adventures too. Setting you up to knock them out of the park. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow95 Posted May 20, 2016 Report Share Posted May 20, 2016 4 hours ago, Burn-E said: Setting you up to knock them out of the park. More like a slow roller to third. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikS Posted May 20, 2016 Report Share Posted May 20, 2016 4 hours ago, Yellow95 said: More like a slow roller to third. Dad, is that you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fudge_Brownie Posted May 20, 2016 Report Share Posted May 20, 2016 On 5/19/2016 at 2:28 AM, Burn-E said: Guess who the largest single contributor is in both participation and funding to the Boy Scouts of America? ~50% of the troops are Mormon I know that. Well, not that it was 50% but I knew it substantial. I also know they have a long history of involvement, and are very active today. Churches are also common meeting spots. It's a major reason I said there's a link between them. But I'm arguing that you don't need it for it to serve as moral direction. Scouts aren't taught that the almighty is always watching, and their teachings don't depend on it. Granted, that might be painted slightly differently in a Utah troop. On 5/19/2016 at 10:15 AM, mattsk8 said: We can split hairs over this, but if you read what you just posted, that doesn't make sense either. IMO, to be an "atheist" means you have taken a stand that there absolutely is no creator God or gods; and to be agnostic means you don't know or don't care. And when I say "atheism is a religion"... obviously you can split hairs over the definition of religion too... Religion... the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially (but not limited to) a personal God or gods. Atheists have to believe in a "superhuman controlling power"; call it what you want but you certainly aren't in control of your own destiny, you don't pick and choose whether you live or you die (or even where you end up for that matter). Obviously you can control whether you die, but you didn't pick when you were born and you can't control the circumstances surrounding you. And that is the scramble for them to try to make what they believe (again, atheism is NOT the absence of belief, that's agnosticism) make sense- they know that to make the claim that there is no God, they need to attempt to account for the [obvious] creation that surrounds them. Hence the reason Psalm 14:1 says, "Only fools say in their hearts, "There is no God". Atheism is not a religion. I don't see how that's debatable. And you're mistaken when you say atheists have to believe in a higher power. Maybe for them to believe that is illogical, but it doesn't mean they don't believe it. You're essentailly debating symantics at this point. You need to realize that just like there are those who operate in the name of god incorrectly, there are those who operate under the title of atheism incorrectly. But that doesn't change that you're still wrong about what an atheist is Certainly aren't in control of your own destiny though? That's obviously what you believe but I think you'll find many atheists and agnostics disagree. I don't believe some magical power controls my destiny. Fate's an excuse to explain complex scenarios and serendipity/phenomenon/coincidence. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theForgottenone Posted May 20, 2016 Report Share Posted May 20, 2016 6 minutes ago, Fudge_Brownie said: Atheism is not a religion. I don't see how that's debatable. And you're mistaken when you say atheists have to believe in a higher power. Maybe for them to believe that is illogical, but it doesn't mean they don't believe it. You're essentailly debating symantics at this point. You need to realize that just like there are those who operate in the name of god incorrectly, there are those who operate under the title of atheism incorrectly. But that doesn't change that you're still wrong about what an atheist is Certainly aren't in control of your own destiny though? That's obviously what you believe but I think you'll find many atheists and agnostics disagree. I don't believe some magical power controls my destiny. Fate's an excuse to explain complex scenarios and serendipity/phenomenon/coincidence. I agreed completely. Not believing any religion can't be label as an entity or group believe in a type of religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burn-E Posted May 20, 2016 Report Share Posted May 20, 2016 Alden I think you're missing the VERY solid connection to God in Scouting. What's the Scout Oath? "On my honor I will do my duty to God and my country..." Powell's thoughts on the purpose of Scouting might illuminate your thinking: http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Media/Relationships/ScoutSabbathServices/badenpowell.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikS Posted May 20, 2016 Report Share Posted May 20, 2016 4 minutes ago, theForgottenone said: I agreed completely. Not believing any religion can't be label as an entity or group believe in a type of religion. Except for those god damn nihilists. No pun intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattsk8 Posted May 20, 2016 Report Share Posted May 20, 2016 5 minutes ago, Fudge_Brownie said: I know that. Well, not that it was 50% but I knew it substantial. I also know they have a long history of involvement, and are very active today. Churches are also common meeting spots. It's a major reason I said there's a link between them. But I'm arguing that you don't need it for it to serve as moral direction. Scouts aren't taught that the almighty is always watching, and their teachings don't depend on it. Granted, that might be painted slightly differently in a Utah troop. Atheism is not a religion. I don't see how that's debatable. And you're mistaken when you say atheists have to believe in a higher power. Maybe for them to believe that is illogical, but it doesn't mean they don't believe it. You're essentailly debating symantics at this point. You need to realize that just like there are those who operate in the name of god incorrectly, there are those who operate under the title of atheism incorrectly. But that doesn't change that you're still wrong about what an atheist is Certainly aren't in control of your own destiny though? That's obviously what you believe but I think you'll find many atheists and agnostics disagree. I don't believe some magical power controls my destiny. Fate's an excuse to explain complex scenarios and serendipity/phenomenon/coincidence. We're both debating semantics (king of), but at least I gave reasoning. You seem to be taking the stand that the people in that video Burn-E posted took, that regardless of what reality really says, whatever you believe is reality (which is total BS). No matter what... no one ultimately has control over their own destiny. You might be able to choose which way you're going to drive to work in the morning, but you have no control over whether or not you get there. You might get there 99 times, but that 1/100 when you don't get there, regardless of what you intended to do, means that in the end... something else is ultimately in control. So believe what you want, if you think you're in control you're foolishly mistaken. You're obviously free to live in that delusion, but you're wrong and delusional. 6 minutes ago, theForgottenone said: I agreed completely. Not believing any religion can't be label as an entity or group believe in a type of religion. Not believing in any religion makes you agnostic... unless you spell out that you don't believe in what any of the other religions teach, and instead you believe ".....", then you started another religion. Saying "No one knows and no one can know about God, whether or not he exists" makes you agnostic. Saying "There is no God" makes you atheist. Call it semantics, but that's the definition of those words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow95 Posted May 21, 2016 Report Share Posted May 21, 2016 On 5/20/2016 at 1:50 PM, ErikS said: Dad, is that you? Is this something we really wanted made public in this forum son? On 5/20/2016 at 2:00 PM, theForgottenone said: I agreed completely. Not believing any religion can't be label as an entity or group believe in a type of religion. What the fuck did you just say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad850 Posted May 22, 2016 Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 On 5/20/2016 at 2:04 PM, ErikS said: Except for those god damn nihilists. No pun intended. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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