gdog Posted January 13, 2018 Report Share Posted January 13, 2018 Firstly, full credit to @Piet and @venderbroeck who inspired me to actually install wmi (water/methanol injection) on my car. Without this post and their help I would have never considered it. There's nothing special about this wmi installation, but it's the first one I've ever done, and I did learn some things that I thought might be worth sharing. If there are some details you have questions about, I'll do my best to fill in the blanks. BTW: This is going to be a long post with lots of details covered; just a heads up.. My setup/mods are in my sig. Basically running an 18t on petrol with supporting mods, but with the small td04hl family, coaxing any extra hp leads to detonation pretty quickly. One solution is switching to E85 fuel but that's not practical for my DD. Wmi is a nice solution because it allows you to still run petrol, but you can get a "boost" of octane (the methanol) and cool your intake charge making it more dense (the H2O) but only when you actually need it (under higher engine loads). The biggest question starting this project is where to mount the wmi high pressure (up to 300 psi) pump. Ideal spot is in the trunk/rear storage area, but I just didn't feel like running all that plumbing frankly; wanted to keep it as simple as possible. After being warned against it, I decided on tucking it up into the left (driver's side in USA) front bumper area. It actually nestled in there quite nicely and should stay relatively dry, unless I submerge the front bumper. Doing this keeps all the components, plumbing, and wiring constrained to the engine bay, with some electrical inside the dash. BTW: my wmi install included a IAT sensor install into the intercooler charge pipe just upstream of the throttle body. I had been using the ambient air temperature sensor (front right corner of car near A/C accumulator) for logging previously, but moved the sensor to the intercooler pipe and used a IAT sensor from the S40. This required re-calibrating the IAT sensor map. The parts list: The schematic as it sits today: Where to install the wmi and IAT ports? In the intercooler pipe between the intercooler and throttle body seems best. A quick sketch (yeah, i'm no artist ) Note the IAT port (on the right) is just downstream of the wmi port; this allow you to measure some of the cooling effect, and even better (if you utilize your IAT maps in tunerpro), the ecu will compensate for it too. Closer look at IAT bung. Was originally a 1/8" NPT that I drilled and tapped for the IAT sensor: 14 x 1.5mm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdog Posted January 13, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2018 Hey gdog, why are those bung welds so f******ugly? Because I just learned how to aluminum solder for this project so I chased them with jb-weld to make sure they didn't leak. Oh; well they sure look like crap.. Yeah well, it's no show car.. The wmi port install: The bungs: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdog Posted January 13, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2018 The pump and plumbing.. The pump is mounted to a DIY fabbed bracket I made from pieces available from home depot; then that bracket is bolted to the car frame. IIRC I utilized an un-used welded nut in the frame (or maybe I just used self-tapping screws here). The arrow is pointing to a bracket I made from an alum strip by making a 90 degree angled bend. Here there was an un-used 8x1.25mm nut welded to the frame allowing a bolt-on solution. On top of this is mounted the DO #2221 distribution block with the pressure switch and (optional) pump pressure gauge. The gauge makes trouble-shooting and testing much easier. Top views of the dist block and pressure gauge. In case you didn't notice it, that's wmi pump relay on left in white.. professionally mounted I might add. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxman Posted January 13, 2018 Report Share Posted January 13, 2018 Nice, is it operational yet? If you keep having knock issues (though with a TD04-style turbo with this setup you shouldn't), there are some alternative locations for the nozzles, especially when running higher water/meth ratios. In my case I could only mount ~10cm before a bend, and the setup wasn't all that effective initially as the spray would mostly just wet my intake tube walls and not reach the engine as quickly as preferred. There are afaik two generally accepted approaches: Intake tube mounting, for reduction of intake air temperatures. Especially effective when still running stock intercooler, or when the turbo is operated near its maximum capacity where the efficiency is at its worst (=hot air) Direct port mounting, for when intake air temperatures are pretty close to ambient already. The injection point is as close to the cylinders as possible, ensuring maximum in-cylinder cooling (as opposed to intake-air cooling) and optimum usage of the knock-reducing properties of methanol. Especially effective when intercooler and Turbo have been upgraded already, and when running higher methanol concentrations (50/50) to fully utilize it's higher knock-index. In my case the intake-tube mounting did close to nothing for knock, while direct-port mounting (or as close as I could get to it with the materials I had) eliminated knock completely all at once. Picture of my setup, nozzles aimed directly at the intake ports within the intake manifold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volvo5.0 Posted January 13, 2018 Report Share Posted January 13, 2018 I tucked my pump up behind the bumper like you did, thinking it would stay relatively dry there. Hope you have better luck than me. Water finds its way in the pump and seizes up the bearings. After killing 2 pumps (each one lasted about a year), I finally moved it to the trunk. My nozzle is in a similar location, but is closer to the TB. One day I removed the cold side from IC and there was quite a bit of water/meth pooled in there. I guess as you let off the throttle some of the mixture gets behind the throttle plate and then drains down. For me the fix was to drill a small (very small) hole in my Precision front mount just below where the cold side hose attaches. Similar to the weep hole that is in the center of the original intercooler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad850 Posted January 13, 2018 Report Share Posted January 13, 2018 5 hours ago, Volvo5.0 said: My nozzle is in a similar location, but is closer to the TB. One day I removed the cold side from IC and there was quite a bit of water/meth pooled in there. I guess as you let off the throttle some of the mixture gets behind the throttle plate and then drains down. For me the fix was to drill a small (very small) hole in my Precision front mount just below where the cold side hose attaches. Similar to the weep hole that is in the center of the original intercooler. Are you talking like tiniest drill bit you have small? I'm assuming it's so small that it has has no real effect on boost pressure or vacuum? It's been so long since I've had a stock intercooler I don't even remember what that thing looked like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volvo5.0 Posted January 13, 2018 Report Share Posted January 13, 2018 Yes, use the smallest bit you have. I didn't notice any drop in performance, but yes there is air (can't imagine much) exiting that hole under boost. I just didn't like the meth mixture puddling up and laying there. It's possible it might not even be an issue for gdog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdog Posted January 14, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2018 On 1/13/2018 at 7:23 AM, Boxman said: In my case the intake-tube mounting did close to nothing for knock, while direct-port mounting (or as close as I could get to it with the materials I had) eliminated knock completely all at once. Picture of my setup, nozzles aimed directly at the intake ports within the intake manifold. Are you running 5 wmi ports (could only see two in that pic)? Well heck yeah that's 5x the wmi fluid; that should quench/drown just about any knock I would think! Nice setup! And yes, it's been operational for some weeks now; still tweaking things though.. On 1/13/2018 at 9:19 AM, Volvo5.0 said: I tucked my pump up behind the bumper like you did, thinking it would stay relatively dry there. Hope you have better luck than me. Water finds its way in the pump and seizes up the bearings. After killing 2 pumps (each one lasted about a year), I finally moved it to the trunk. My nozzle is in a similar location, but is closer to the TB. One day I removed the cold side from intercooler and there was quite a bit of water/meth pooled in there. I guess as you let off the throttle some of the mixture gets behind the throttle plate and then drains down. For me the fix was to drill a small (very small) hole in my Precision front mount just below where the cold side hose attaches. Similar to the weep hole that is in the center of the original intercooler. Yeah, you were probably the one who warned me about that location for the pump. I may end up moving up once I get bored and need another project to work on.. This is a wagon, so one of my initial concerns about locating it inside the cabin was pump noise, but this pump is very quiet; can only hear it if you're near it when it's running. I had figured there might be pooling at the bottom of the intercooler at times, so I also drilled a weep hole in the bottom of it; same as the stock intercooler. Actually I did that when I first got the do88. And yes, you won't lose any boost from having a weep hole; you should have one even if you don't have wmi IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdog Posted January 14, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2018 But wait, there's more.. Yes, I'm covering maybe some mundane details, esp for the more experienced guys here. But I'm going to cover stuff that I had wished I knew about before I started. Ran plumbing and wiring between the left and right side of engine bay across the bumper area: The IAT sensor I used: Readily available from your local pic n pull. PM me if you can't find one. Had kind of a hard time finding a pump pressure switch. This one (QPM11-NO) is nice in that the switch ON pressure is adjustable via a set screw on the end. Seen these on amazon and ebay for $10 to $20 range. The pump typically runs at about 150 psi so you want the switch ON pressure threshold to be around 90-120 psi. And note Piet's routine is designed to work with a NO (normally open) pressure switch. There's an NC version of this switch out there, but get the NO model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdog Posted January 14, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2018 A bunch pics of mods to the windshield washer tank so it can double as a wmi reservoir too. Basically you need to add the pickup in bottom of tank for wmi feed to pump, and add another fluid level switch (the stock one won't work) for the wmi safety. Some rough measurements of where i located the pickup on bottom of tank. This is actually pic of a 2nd tank I got from picNpull; as you'll see, I botched the my first attempt a little.. Below showing a good spot to locate the additional level switch from DO. I learned (the hard way) to mount it on the outside (facing inside of rt frnt fender) rear of the tank. My first try was located on the inside (facing the engine bay) of the tank, but when I re-installed the tank, it hit the frame rail. As mentioned, below was my first attempt; this was my original tank. After I drilled, discovered I was right up against the plenum for the stock level sensor inside the tank. This caused an issue by not allowing the DO tank pickup to seal correctly. Doh! In hindsight, even on the 2nd attempt, I could have moved the hole over even more yet; note the pickup hose for the windshield washer pump is right there. Oh well, just pushed it over a bit.. Hole for the wmi level switch; hey it's mostly round.. yeah, that's what silicone is for.. Ooh, that's a good looking install..! Note the inline DO filter on that professionally fabbed bracket.. Remember where we put the wmi float switch? Go any higher and it will interfere here: Next up, I'll go into the electricals in more detail and talk about how Piet's program works; I had some assumptions about it that proved to be incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxman Posted January 14, 2018 Report Share Posted January 14, 2018 4 hours ago, gdog said: Are you running 5 wmi ports (could only see two in that pic)? Well heck yeah that's 5x the wmi fluid; that should quench/drown just about any knock I would think! Nice setup! And yes, it's been operational for some weeks now; still tweaking things though.. Hehe, no, just the two. They spray wide enough to cover all 5 ports inside the manifold. They're smaller jets though, adjusted for total flow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdog Posted January 20, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2018 On 1/13/2018 at 11:48 PM, gdog said: Next up, I'll go into the electricals in more detail and talk about how Piet's program works; I had some assumptions about it that proved to be incorrect. ..as promised.. Again, much of this may seem like un-necessary AR details to many of you, but if I'd found a post like this prior to my project, it would have saved me some grief. WMI Electricals: breaking this into three parts Wiring the wmi pump and relay The pump ON LED indicator Hooking up the Front Foglamp circuit to pwr the wmi circuit (Obviously this is just one option, but not if you're actually using your front fogs ) Will do each of these in a separate post for organization's sake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdog Posted January 20, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2018 Part 1: Wiring the wmi pump and relay: You obviously can't just hook up your wmi pump to a switch; if IIRC it can draw up to 10A. You need to insert a relay into the circuit to handle that much current. For reference here's the wmi schematic I drew up again: Just a standard automotive relay is all you need for the wmi pump, like a J relay that you likely have laying around. These J relays are used all over the place in our cars. UPDATE: Actually if you use a J relay, you'll need another diode hanging off of pin 85; note the updated the schematic above; I used an old BMW relay from the toolbox which had the additional diode on pin 85. If you use a J relay w/o the additional diode, it'll backfeed voltage from the pump ON indicator LED into the foglight switch and turn on the ON indicator in the fog switch even when the fog switch is off. Since I didn't have a relay socket, I just got some crimp connectors from home depot and hand-wired the wires up to the relay. The critical part is how you wire the coil side of the relay, especially assuming it's wired as above with the reservoir float switch inline. NOTE: the 12v pwr feed is coming from the foglamp relay (to be covered in section 3). This feeds pwr to both relay pins 30 (high current side of relay) and pin 86. Assuming your relay has a diode wired internally as above between pins 85 and 86 (as virtually all automotive relays do), it is critical that the 12v feed side is wired to pin 86 and the ground side is on pin 85. I wasn't paying close enough attention the first time I wired it up (had the pin order inverted), and promptly blew out my float switch when I initially tested it. Pin B38 on the ECU is a DO (digital output) that Piet's wmi modified bin will pull low (to ground level) when the engine load goes above a set-able load setpoint (5 - 6ms is a good starting point). The stock ECU uses pin B38 for SAS so it will need to be sacrificed.. Note the only pwr (watts) required for the B38 part of this circuit is what's needed to activate the wmi relay; something on the order of 20 mA or so. As mentioned, the other side of the relay circuit (pins 30 and 87) will be the motor draw which can be on the order 10A so use appropriately sized wire here! Here's an interesting thing I learned about how Piet's wmi program works. Note the pump pressure switch will sense when the pump is active by grounding ECU pin B32; this is a DI (digital input) which has an internal pullup to 5v in the ECU. When the engine load goes above your setpoint, B38 is pulled low, and will stay low as long the engine stays above your setpoint. During this state, the pump should be activated (assuming you have fluid in your reservoir so the float switch is closed, the pump circuit has pwr, etc.). Once the pump goes active the pressure switch will go from open to closed and this pulls ECU pin B32 to ground; only after this happens will the program switch over to using your wmi maps (ignition, load request, and AFR/VE). If the pressure switch does not close (due to lack of pump pressure or whatever) the non-wmi maps will stay active. Here's the interesting part; I had assumed that the program would let B38 go back high if it didn't see B32 grounded after so much time, say maybe 2s or something, but it doesn't; B38 will stay low as long as the engine stays above your setpoint. After thinking about this a while, I can see how doing it this way makes the program much simpler and more robust; you could easily get into control feedback delay problems that could make the system cycle on and off. But it is important that the user understands this; will get into this more when I cover the pump ON LED indicator in the next post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piet Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 The main goal of the pressure switch and the software behind it is to protect your engine, not so much the wmi pump. It prevents switching to the more agressive mapset for wmi when your wmi system (pump) fails or when you run out of meth. The pump is protected from running dry by the the switch in the meth tank. There is also a parameter send in the logframe which indicates whether the de ECU has activated the pump and that pressure in the wmi system is detected or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdog Posted January 21, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 6 hours ago, Piet said: There is also a parameter send in the logframe which indicates whether the de ECU has activated the pump and that pressure in the wmi system is detected or not. Thanks for chiming in Piet! Are you saying there are two different log parameters? If so, can you identify them please? I think my logs show the former, but not the latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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