Deltablade Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 save the state and taxpayers the thousands of dollars per year that it costs to imprison someone←Gregg,I hate to break this down to the economic level but you started it. I'll start out by telling you that your argument is very shallow. I will also ask you the question: If the total cost of executing a prisoner, including legal fees was a figure identical to the total cost of imprisoning the offender for life, would you still support execution? See, this is what happens when a complex moral issue is broken down into pure economics...it often times can't be done.There is no way to predict how abolishing capital punishment would affect the cost of executing a prisoner vs. imprisoning him for live.Capital cases usually take about 3.5 times as long as non-capital ones and are much more complicated to deal with. This equates to more time spend on the trial and much more money that the taxpayers have to pay. Realize that everyone who works in the courtroom, lawyer, judge, even balifs have to get payed. It depends on who's stats you use; some sources say that execution is much cheaper than life imprisonment and others say the opposite. It also varies state to state so it is very difficult to tell which costs more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 I agree that it varies state to state, and that capital cases do take longer to deal with. But that is just another problem of this country. We give people too many chances. A lot of murder cases are pretty cut and dry and when convicted of 1st degree murder, I think the lowlife who did the crime should die. He took the ultimate gift (life) away from an innocent person, and now the government should take the ultimate gift away from a definitely not innocent person. I definitely do agree with capital punishment.A person murdering another individual is completely different than a convicted killer being executed. In the first case, no possible good can come of it. But in the second case, it gives the ultimate punishment for the ultimate crime, it provides closure for the victims' families, and society should feel better off knowing that there is no chance of this killer ever getting back into society.Your remark about the cost of capital cases to non-capital ones does make sense if you only consider the initial costs of the proceedings. However, when we allow prisoners, some of whom are cold-blooded murderers/rapists/etc., to sue for something like cable tv in their prisons, or the "right" to have Sony Playstation, or any other item that is considered a luxury item, one can only observe and see that our court system is monkeyed up. Prisoners who are in for life with no possibility for parole probably get kind of bored, I imagine. Quite often these inmates sue the government over petty things, or things they just outright don't deserve, and tie up the legal system and end up costing more money to taxpayers.Capital punishment also serves the purpose of freeing up space in prisons for people who commit less-heinous crimes, but that should still serve time in jail. I know that prison overpopulation is a problem in different areas of the country, and new prisons have to be built, or prisoners are sent to a different state for their sentence or part of it, quite often at a high expense to the state that does not have the room in their own prisons.Now we also have the societal costs of instances where prison guards are attacked and killed by inmates (usually who are there for life and have no future to look forward to). Then there are the cases of murderers who are sentenced to life in prison and who eventually get out and kill another person. How does one even put a dollar value on these lives? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt1122 Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 Two wrongs don't make a right.Killing is wrong.←I'm a mathematics man.Two negatives = a positive.(But only when convenient.)Quite frankly I have no problem with killing someone for something like the Puerto Rican Day Parade incident, let alone just murderers... Does this actually work? No. There are thousands of reasons why it's a horrible idea. But it wouldn't make me upset if it somehow did work... and happened...But how did this conversation start anyway?The point is, the supreme court is there to make these kind of rulings. You disagree? Try to become a justice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wills Posted March 12, 2005 Report Share Posted March 12, 2005 (edited) First off there are some judges who do re write the laws. Take for example the 9th Circuit Court in San Fran. They have 75% of their rulings OVERTURNED because they are so far off. As for costs of execution or incarceration both are out of control. Capital punishment trials take forever and are appealed almost always. There should be limits on appeals. For those who are in jail, why not make them work? There are many products or labor services they could do. Hell even the chain gangs accomplished something better than sitting in jail. It seems as if the criminals have more rights than the victims nowdays, even terrorists have the ACLU rooting for them! :o Edited March 12, 2005 by wills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt1122 Posted March 13, 2005 Report Share Posted March 13, 2005 (edited) This thread should be called "how are we going to fix the justice system" because that is where it appears to be going.It's a waste of time though.There is no win-win situation unless crime stops completely. There will always be flaws and problems.I actually think this entire argument that the thread is based on is null though. Take a bunch of law and CJ and US Politics classes and you will realize that decisions that make and change the law are made all the time because Judges must interpet the law. Different people have different interpretations and sometimes justices will bend the law as much as possible to get the best outcome they can.There are a few types of views on the law, and I'm not going to get into them, but not everyone believes it should be treated the same way you believe it should.Some of us believe in justice. I think those kids should get the penalty, but the law says they shouldn't because obviously they don't know write for wrong or understand what they did...Do you have more details on this case? Transcripts perhaps? Edited March 13, 2005 by Legend854T5R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djscoggins Posted March 13, 2005 Report Share Posted March 13, 2005 Just a question to those so opposed to the Death Penalty....Lets say Hypothetically.... Im a criminal.....and im not So anyhow i break into your house and kill one or all of your family members in cold premeditated blood with no remorse/regret or appreciation for human life at all. And youre one of or the only surviving member... your gonna tell me that your ok with me getting free food/home/tv/games/excorcise/health/dental/haircuts/clothes? At OUR expense?so i ask if it were YOUR loved one who was the victim how woul you feel?Are u gonna suck it up and turn the other cheek and say "I hope that the a/c in his cell breaks....alot" and be satisfied that one day this "Life w/o Parole" murderer may one day be released because there are too many people in the prison system? (yes it can happen if he becomes what a parole board deems "Rehibilitated and fit for society") and kills again? if someone harmed one of my family members, God forbid, i dont know exactly what id do but i know that i would NOT just be satisfied with him/her getting a free meal ticket...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt1122 Posted March 13, 2005 Report Share Posted March 13, 2005 It hasn't happened to them so they will all say they don't feel like the death penalty is necessary or some crap like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricF Posted March 20, 2005 Report Share Posted March 20, 2005 I will also ask you the question: If the total cost of executing a prisoner, including legal fees was a figure identical to the total cost of imprisoning the offender for life, would you still support execution?←I know it's not directed towards me, but...Only if it's televised or at least available to rich spectators. To generate income for the government of course (say, $5000 a plate at a royal execution dinner show).But I'm just kidding No I'm not... Yes I am. No, I'm not. Really though, yes I am. Well I guess I'm flipping back and forth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowV Posted March 20, 2005 Report Share Posted March 20, 2005 Adding a note here .... anyone aware of the fact the prisons in some states are requirecd to offer at least 3 choices fo meat for each meal.... and it has to satisfy the inmates religion ... some religions don't allow their members to consume some meats . Talk about adding to the cost of maintaing an individual in custody .Appeals on Death row . There is a specified number of appeals allowed ( depending on the state ) and a time line for how soon after the last one was done when the next can be brought to the courts . Which I've heard when all said and done in it's shortest amount of time is something like 7 yrs. So even if the execution is carried out , you've invested that amount of time and energy into mainting them for 7 yrs . I was raising ostrichs when I found this out . Back to the orginal subject .....any thought that the justices are trying to help to bring about the "one world government " or just help those that want a one world Gov.I sure don't want any one from outside the US telling me what my Taxes are going to be , or what I can or can't do . I'll get off my soapbox now ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester1182 Posted March 21, 2005 Report Share Posted March 21, 2005 Because some people do not deserve to live ←is that you GOD? its me margret. i hope any jurors/judges you come across arent as ignorant as yourself. for your own sake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_R Posted March 22, 2005 Report Share Posted March 22, 2005 I'm all about the 22 cent solution here. 1 well-placed round would suffice. Who says execution has to be expensive?There is an easy way to make death-row/executions effective as deterrents and money-makers for the state... Pay-Per-View. Some may argue that Public Execution violates the perp's rights... What rights? You have been found guilty by a jury of your peers and your one remaining right is the right to die! You are lucky that you weren't standing on a plastic tarp when they jury came back with the verdict. "We the jury, find the defendant..." <insert pistol-cocking noise> "Guilty" <BANG!>Start doling out (and televising) some of these sentences and I have a funny feeling violent crimes will take a downward spiral. It seems that, in America today, a Death sentence is deemed nothing more than a move to a different cell block. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt1122 Posted March 23, 2005 Report Share Posted March 23, 2005 is that you GOD? its me margret. i hope any jurors/judges you come across arent as ignorant as yourself. for your own sake.←^^ Case in Point. ^^*Just Kidding!* (Milk Chan Syyle)(Even though that show is t3h suck.)No seriously, just kidding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnDeaux22 Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 I believe that the death penalty should apply to all regardless of age. If one has the maturity and wherwithall to plan and execute a murder, a person is certainly eligable for the death penalty in my book. I personally think that there should be a time limit set on the appeals process in death penalty cases. More death row inmates die of natural causes in their cells than die at the hands of the government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt1122 Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 I believe that the death penalty should apply to all regardless of age. If one has the maturity and wherwithall to plan and execute a murder, a person is certainly eligable for the death penalty in my book. I personally think that there should be a time limit set on the appeals process in death penalty cases. More death row inmates die of natural causes in their cells than die at the hands of the government.←It's not just appeals, there are also "death" rows where the states haven't actually executed anyone in a while because they don't feel like it, IIRC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsat Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 People vote things into law and we abide by them. Now it seems that unelected people can now disregard those laws and impose their personal opinion on the rest of the country. I don't know about you, but that makes me very nervous.If I recall, that is how GW became president the first time.Honestly, I think the Death Penalty should be used more often. First, let all of these people out of jail for Marajuana and Prostetution. Really, what.Keep people in jail that commit Rape, Murder, or other physical crimes against others. If they are convicted of a crime and their sentance is more than 30 years they automatically are put on death row. Allow 3 appeals over five years. After 5 years use a .22 round to the back of the head. If they survive, let them free.Make most if not all drugs Legal. Regulate and Tax them like Alchohol and penis. Instead of losing Billions from trials, jails and evaded taxes States will make Billions on tax revenue.Make Prostitution Legal. Regulate and Tax them. Put them under the Department of Health or the National Park service. Instead of costing money to prosecute and imprison the states will make Millions. Reduce STD's like AIDS because all Brothels would require regular testing and protection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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