P2 AWD "Collar" gear analysis

[AlexD]

[defgh1]

Parts always seem to be a tad more expensive in the UK for some reason, never could understand why.

Volvo retail parts cost appear to be regionally adjusted and are rarely same from one US State to another! I know from working with Red at Brentwood Volvo, St. Louis that his retail price was ~ 7% less than the same part in Maryland!

Doug H

[AlexD]

Rumor has it that a Volvo dealer was convinced to order the D5 part instead of the original part on a warranty claim (original not VIP) as a result of the threads here and on swedespeed,com I'll post more when the car has actually been put back together and everyone's sure it is working.

[jjdavieshall]

Rumor has it that a Volvo dealer was convinced to order the D5 part instead of the original part on a warranty claim (original not VIP) as a result of the threads here and on swedespeed,com I'll post more when the car has actually been put back together and everyone's sure it is working.

I was wondering when something like that might transpire.

I've been hearing a new little "noink" from (apparently) the right rear, question if I might be angling towards bevel gear time. . .

[AlexD]

I was wondering when something like that might transpire.

I've been hearing a new little "noink" from (apparently) the right rear, question if I might be angling towards bevel gear time. . .

Something from the right rear might be the active struts going south...

[jjdavieshall]

Rumor has it that a Volvo dealer was convinced to order the D5 part instead of the original part on a warranty claim (original not VIP) as a result of the threads here and on swedespeed,com I'll post more when the car has actually been put back together and everyone's sure it is working.

Alex,

Do you have any follow up on that 30787669 collar gear being installed?

I've apparently lost mine, as the front is scratchy traction like the T5 when I really get on it, and I've been hearing a "noink" for weeks perhaps in the middle of the car on mild and moderate throttle power application, clutch release and engage, etc.. I powered out of a turn from stand still last week and one front tire broke traction a lot, I thought it was perhaps from crossing the cross walk paint while applying power to take off while wheels turned. However, there seems to be increased front traction incidents and torque steering while getting on it.

I'm taking it in next week, want to ask for the best. . .

Thanks, Jim

[AlexD]

So my follow up is good and bad. The dealer that agreed to order the D5 part decided to order a new M66 AND angle gear for that car due to some other issues. I gather than when the M66 and angle gear are ordered like this, they come with a collar gear so they can't order the part separately...

Now for the bad news: Someone else on swedespeed,com ordered the D5 part and claimed it did not fit. However, they have not provided any followup info on the issue so I can't say why since the internal dimensions of the gear are an excellent match to the stock R part. The lab measured the splined interfaces as well as the clip inside the collar gear and everything has the same dimensions as the stock R part so it should fit. Try printing out this post information and passing it along to your dealer's service manager. Talk to the service manager rather than your service advisor, beg, plead, offer to sell him your first born. Possibly offer to order the part yourself and provide it to the dealer...

[jjdavieshall]

My dealer said that they are not allowed by Volvo to try the new model collar gear. On Tuesday they said that they are ordering the collar gear, and the right drive shaft, and other stuff. I did not catch all of the parts named. They said maybe the other "noink" I was hearing was the drive shaft for the right front.

I did feel awfully left front drive, tended to pull that way. Apparently was worse than I thought for longer than I thought, have not tried breaking tracking in wet ( not very often wet) or any thing regularly to verify that AWD is working, but may want to do so in future. . . . .

Also they've ordered a seat pan as my driver seat squeaks when I load up in the turns. They had tried to fix that on a few other "R"s and wound up at a seat pan replace, so they cut to the chase for me. I guess.

Today they called and said that they broken their collar gear puller trying to get the gear off! Service advisor says collar gear is really fused on there!. Alex tells me that Volvo They expect the new puller tomorrow and will try again. If that fails they said they will order a new transmission!

I've just been by to see the car. . .

They are reluctant to heat the gear in order to remove it with the oil there. . . they've drilled a big hole in the collar gear and will try that work around and try with a new "puller" which is from Volvo.

They did ask me if we go the transmission route should I want a new clutch at that time, since all is disassembled then. That is to their credit, certainly. 35,000 miles, I think I should. The mechanic suggested a Sachs clutch. I did not see a praise of that on some other reading on the forum.

WOULD LIKE SOME FEEDBACK ON CLUTCH, factory or other makes.

more grist for the collar gear mill, or is it spline shavings and spline bits, not grist?

thanks every one,

[jjdavieshall]

UPDATE

Well, they got the collar gear off and installed the new and the new right drive shaft, would you believe that the new right drive shaft failed (at the CV joint ?) as they were test driving the reassembled car, in the exit driveway at Putnam. They had to push it back into the shop!

I saw the car on the lift, the right wheel turns but the axle inboard of the CV joint does not. Axle still had stickers and new paint on it.

So, all happened after the 2PM parts order cut off, they'll have the car till Tuesday now it seems.

Weird, but good it is on Volvo's dime and in their driveway!

Jim

[defgh1]

UPDATE

Well, they got the collar gear off and installed the new and the new right drive shaft, would you believe that the new right drive shaft failed (at the CV joint ?) as they were test driving the reassembled car, in the exit driveway at Putnam. They had to push it back into the shop!

I saw the car on the lift, the right wheel turns but the axle inboard of the CV joint does not. Axle still had stickers and new paint on it.

So, all happened after the 2PM parts order cut off, they'll have the car till Tuesday now it seems.

Weird, but good it is on Volvo's dime and in their driveway!

Jim

Based on the following Note in VADIS, my guess is somebody messed up during the install!

Note! Do not pull the outer part of the shaft. Doing so could damage the axial stops in the joints.

Doug H

[RedV70R]

I lost AWD function on my '05VR at 76,9000 miles; I assume he collar gear/spline broke.

I'm willing to fit a 30783419 (D5 part) if there is a chance it will live a bit longer.

I ordered the part today, should have it Friday.

For the record, I'm the second owner, I've never lit up the tires on this car and drive it hard but not abusively. I assume the same of the first owner as he did not seem like the burnout type.

[AlexD]

I lost AWD function on my '05VR at 76,9000 miles; I assume he collar gear/spline broke.

I'm willing to fit a 30783419 (D5 part) if there is a chance it will live a bit longer.

I ordered the part today, should have it Friday.

For the record, I'm the second owner, I've never lit up the tires on this car and drive it hard but not abusively. I assume the same of the first owner as he did not seem like the burnout type.

Can you cancel the order? I have just now received the final words back from BAE on this. The inner diameter of the teeth is not the same on this part and that is the reason the one person who has tried this was unable to get it to fit. I have not heard back from that guy (from swedespeed,com) so I pressed BAE to delve deeper into this fitment and the collar for the D5 is about 1mm too narrow inside to fit.

[JRL]

Can you cancel the order? I have just now received the final words back from BAE on this. The inner diameter of the teeth is not the same on this part and that is the reason the one person who has tried this was unable to get it to fit. I have not heard back from that guy (from Swedespeed.com) so I pressed BAE to delve deeper into this fitment and the collar for the D5 is about 1mm too narrow inside to fit.

This is becoming quite absurd.

We were talking with Volvo on the (head engineer at Rockleigh) and there are /were very FEW collar gear issues and most o those have been from bad REassembly by a dealer (no grease)

We hear of "all" the collar gear issues here and on SS but in reality, those are about it, a literal handful of the multi thousands of angle gears and collars out there.

(D5 gear DOES NOT FIT, PERIOD)

I lost AWD function on my '05VR at 76,9000 miles; I assume he collar gear/spline broke.

Don't assume, (you all really have to get a grip on this)!

It may just be the DIM module, either just dirty or bad ($250) retail.

Goes bad,AWD shuts right off

[AlexD]

This is becoming quite absurd.

We were talking with Volvo on the (head engineer at Rockleigh) and there are /were very FEW collar gear issues and most o those have been from bad REassembly by a dealer (no grease)

We hear of "all" the collar gear issues here and on SS but in reality, those are about it, a literal handful of the multi thousands of angle gears and collars out there.

(D5 gear DOES NOT FIT, PERIOD)

Don't assume, (you all really have to get a grip on this)!

It may just be the DIM module, either just dirty or bad ($250) retail.

Goes bad,AWD shuts right off

Somehow that doesn't jive with the findings Jim. There are a few things we need to consider:

1. The wear mode on this collar would not have been prevented by grease.

2. Furthermore, for more than one model year Volvo epoxied the collar in place, they didn't even use any grease from the factory for that time. Volvo's progression on this problem was: greased collar > epoxied collar > nitride coated collar > redesigned collar for new D5/6 speed GT models.

3. I have had e-mails, IMs and PMs from easily 30 owners with failed collars, none of them (that's not even one) had ever had the collar gear worked on by the dealer, they all failed straight from the factory.

4. Let's be frank. The other AWD units out there that use this part don't put nearly as much stress on the collar due to programming of the AOC and less powerful engines.The 2.4T/2.5T engines with the Aisin 5 speed just don't put enough wear on it. The V8 and all models using 6 speed autos use a totally different collar. The D5 cars also use a different collar. The T6 XC90 also used a different collar, so this particular application is unique in the demands placed upon it by the Rs. 5 speed R models don't even put as much stress on this part due to the torque limiting.

5. We MUST consider that enthusiast owners would put more stress on this part than the general public, but that being said the higher rare of failures on this part vs the better engineered 6 speed auto part are compelling.

6. My local dealers here (Smythe and Putnam) have both freely admitted that this is a "common failure" item on the R models (their words, not mine), especially the MT R models. Smythe has also said that they have seen failures on moderate mileage XC70 vehicles whose owners drive in a semi-off road fashion.

7. While driving style most certainly plays a role in the issue, I have to go back to my dealer's statements of "frequent" problems with this part, also the materials analysis shows that this part is strangely weak and Volvo did make efforts to improve the part. Why would they have bothered with expensive nitride coatings if wear was such a rare issue?

8. Speaking with another dealer's service manager who would rather not be named, he commented that with the 04 Rs they saw a number of failures of this part and the regional reps were suprised/interested in the situation. Because of the failure mode the input splines of the angle gear can get damaged as well, this raised eyebrows with VCNA when the R was young and it was hard to get new bevel gears approved without the regional rep inspecting. As time progressed this was obviously happening more frequently than Volvo expected and now in-warranty bevel gears are being replaced out here without calling a regional rep on the R models. This activity speaks volumes to me.

Bottom lines: the lack of failures of 6 speed GT models, the fact that Volvo improved the part over time speaks that there was something wrong with the part, the research done by BAE on this part seals the matter, the part is poorly designed and will eventually fail on just about all cars given enough time.

[jjdavieshall]

UPDATE

Well, they got the collar gear off and installed the new and the new right drive shaft, would you believe that the new right drive shaft failed (at the CV joint ?) as they were test driving the reassembled car, in the exit driveway at Putnam. They had to push it back into the shop!

I saw the car on the lift, the right wheel turns but the axle inboard of the CV joint does not. Axle still had stickers and new paint on it.

So, all happened after the 2PM parts order cut off, they'll have the car till Tuesday now it seems.

Weird, but good it is on Volvo's dime and in their driveway!

Jim

Well, all is good.

Dealer did all under warranty, here are the parts used:

Axle Shaft # 36000534-2 (Right Side)

Axle Shaft # 36000519-3

Angle Gear # 36000340-4

Service Kit # 31256246-5

Transmission Oil and Hex and SEMS screws.

Now 35,000 miles, no track racing or autocross, lots of heel and toe matching down shifts, no street 1/4 miles or signal light derbies. 2006 6 MT, I think it is a design issue on reliability. Putnam did not blink on changing it, did not need to call Dad (as Alex notes, the regional rep), and Putnam also says that they are aware that one does not pull on the axles when replacing them (thanks Doug, I followed up).

They wound up using heat and boring a hole in the OEM collar gear in order to pull it with the second Volvo "special" pulling tool, as the first one broke.

As for why all the collateral damage to Axle Shafts, probably duration of the collar gear being chipped free of teeth and those bits were the sabot in the mill gears.

At any rate, it is better (like new) and I am enjoying the car again with out any Front Wheel Drive behavior like our 98 T5 and with out any clicks/noinks when clutch engaged-disengaged or when throttle varied at low speeds.

Seems a shame on such a wonderful car that such a central issue would be this serious a problem. Maybe if it goes again they have a better fix, and maybe I'll be covered for that as I've VIP up to 100 thousand miles.

Jim