Considering a V70R, but this site is scaring me...

[Bigfieroman]

I got this from the link:

An Error Occurred

Sorry, an error occurred. If you are unsure on how to use a feature, or don't know why you got this error message, try looking through the help files for more information.

[#10333] We could not find the forum you were attempting to view.

[Tzantushka1568908311]

I got this from the link:

An Error Occurred

Sorry, an error occurred. If you are unsure on how to use a feature, or don't know why you got this error message, try looking through the help files for more information.

[#10333] We could not find the forum you were attempting to view.

Oooh yes, looks like a few bugs Mike will need to sort out!

http://v70r.com/forums/forum/63-buying-and-selling-tips-and-questions/

Mike,

On this subject, with the wisdom of the others we pulled together a "what to look for" thread for the 2004 - 07 Rs.

This was in the Wiki, but I am not sure where it has ended up...

Only my ramblings about the Wiki appears now - not the content

Something else for the list.

Cheers.

Trent

[flyfishing31568908306]

yeah, trent, the wiki stuff will be back.

Fiero, try this time.

http://v70r.com/forums/forum/63-buying-and-selling-tips-and-questions/

anybody else unable to follow that link?

look in the marketplace area, on the bottom is the subforum.

[lucien2]

b0rked. I can't see it either, fwiw

yeah, trent, the wiki stuff will be back.

Fiero, try this time.

http://v70r.com/foru...-and-questions/

anybody else unable to follow that link?

look in the marketplace area, on the bottom is the subforum.

[winterhalo]

Nice bikes. Scary machine.

[raeste]

Tried the link provided <http://v70r.com/forums/forum/63-buying-and-selling-tips-and-questions/> and it doesn't work. Haven't tried any variants yet.

Blueleezard

[WayneC]

Hi there.

I have tried both as guest and signed in. In neither case did the link work.

We're now 6 months with an '07 V70R GT. I was like the original post person. What will I be getting into?

So far easy and a real 'kick in the pants'! A great car and lot's of fun. Maybe some money for repairs in the future - but try a Merc or BMW out of warranty that only provide half the fun!

Regards

Wayne

[raeste]

We're now 6 months with an '07 V70R GT. I was like the original post person. What will I be getting into?

Hey WayneC:

The best thing you can get into is being well-informed. Just spend some uninterrupted time so you can concentrate a bit on the range of posts and topics on the forum. Follow your nose and your interests. If you haven't done this yet, I think you'll be not only pleasantly surprised but increasingly confident about both what to expect and what to think about with the 'R'. It truly is an outstanding vehicle, and the forum is an outstanding resource. And, as BillinNJ said so eloquently: the forum is not here to scare, but to inform. Ask questions if something comes up with your 'R' that hasn't been previously discussed (or talked about lately, as things might have changed). If you're like me and don't have a warranty, hopefully you have a good relationship with a specialist indie shop that knows Volvos generally and the 'R' in particular (maybe even loves them for what they truly are). That type of connection will help a great deal over time, especially if something major ever does come up. If something untoward happens, ask the guys on the forum about it -- from what I've been able to see, you'll get support and the best advice going. And, of course, we all hope that your '07 is a 1st-class machine that has seen no abuse, has been maintained really really well, and hasn't had things like the dreaded exhaust + driveshaft event (you've already removed your squirrel catcher, yes?) or impromptu excursions into or over those damnable parking barricades, front or rear. If you have a Vancouver car, it probably hasn't seen much by way of snow / salt / gravel, a good thing. But even if it has been through rough Winters, my guess is it's still fine. I am certainly finding that to be true, at least in the case of our 2004 'R' that lived in Northern Alberta until my wife and I picked it up not that long ago. Just keep to the mantra: "maintenance!"

Cheers -- and enjoy the living daylights out of your 'R'!!

Blueleezard

[Bigfieroman]

Link still isn't working for me. I will keep this brief because I am really tired.

I drove out to look at the car today, 300 miles/5 hours each way. 1 hour flopping around under the car in his garage, 30 min test driving, and 30 minutes of discussion, and then I went back home. I am beat.

The guy seems like an ideal owner. 60 year old former executive who is trying to raise some cash for his daughter's wedding. Copies of all the service records, everything was done at the dealer. 2006, 75k, Sonic blue, MT, extra aftermarket 17" rims, tow hitch (for a bike carrier, etc), and I think I can make it happen for $17k or a litte less. The car is really immaculate for the mileage, it is obvious he really loved it...it has been waxed a LOT.

I checked out the car for the major stuff. Exhaust bracket is still there. It has been bumped, but was still well clear of the exhaust. No obvious PS pump/resivoir leak or radiator leaks, but I didn't know exactly where the leaks occur on these parts. Clutch was light and positive, shifted great. The prop shaft had an area of paint worn off from the occasional rain squeal, but no vibration or denting or serious gouging. he said he never heard the noise. Brand new tires, 75k service, front brake pads.

Bad news: the blue seats have a lot of creasing all over the car and there is some wear on the driver's seat especially. Not too happy with that, but otherwise the car was SPOTLESS inside and out. The e-brake didn;t work all THAT well. I told him to have the dealer check it out, because it was supposed to be adjusted and inspected at the 75k service he had done, but it was pretty weak. I am worried about the delam issue, if I get the car I will change them out ASAP.

Really bad news: Angle gear was weeping from the seals; photos attached.

Cautiously optimistic news: He said he bought the car under a special deal with his dealer. Apparently if he bought the car there and had ALL of the services done there, which he did, he gets a non-transferable lifetime warranty on the drivetrain. He seemed confident that they would perform the reseal under warranty, and then he would sell me the car. He is going to get back to me with what they say. The AWD still worked fine; a little abrupt on engagement, but still transferring lots of torque.

The car drove perfectly. Tracked straight, even tire wear, very quiet suspension (no clunking or noises at all, brief/minor brake squeal on engagement), everything worked fine.

Questions: I know the pics are bad, but take a look at the weeping angle gear. I have not really found an explanation on the forum of what kills the gear...is it excessive leakage? Assuming it is still good mechanically, and the dealer performs a proper reseal and refill, do I still need to worry about this thing exploding? What is the root cause of failure on these things?

Is there any way to judge clutch wear or the danger of slave explosion, or is it just a wait-and-see (-and-pray) thing?

Any major possible issues that I missed?

Thanks in advance guys...now I get to sleep! Woo hoo!

The grungy, oily bottom:

A little better shot:

You can see how there is no oil above the shaft protruding from the assembly:

This was some oil on the oil pan, but I think it was just poorly cleaned mess from the last service, which was less than 100 miles ago:

Ohh, forgot to say there was no pinging noise when shifting 1st to reverse and back.

Thanks for the compliments on the bikes; here is a photo from a recent local ride/race. It includes the 13 steepest/longest hills in the area...one is 37% and cobblestones!

On a related note, from experience, I don't recommend that men should wear red spandex in public. Or private. Or...ever.

[flyfishing31568908306]

links should be working now.

[raeste]

Bigfieroman:

Great that you got out to have a closer look at the 'R' you are interested in.

1.a -- your central question about the angle gear ("What is the root cause of failure on these things?") is exactly the right one. I have been trying without much success so far to find clear information about exactly what you are asking, and will move on to my trusted indie shop as the next step. I sure hope that someone out there can answer in a truly knowledgable fashion, whether from the forum or elsewhere. Maybe there's a Volvo tech on the forum who can fill us in about this question.

1.b -- did you have any conversation with the vendor about whether or not he would be willing to go to bat on your behalf, to argue in favour of a transfer of that lifetime warranty? I would think that would be worth it's weight in gold. It might take some hard bargaining, and it might cost in terms of this whole transaction, but most likely that would really be worth a shot. Even if it ended up costing two grand or a bit more on top of what you negotiate for a final price, if you drive away with that warranty, that would be exceptionally valuable.

1.c -- if the owner can get the angle gear re-seal and re-fill done under his "lifetime" coverage, that's obviously a hopeful thing. But, that still brings us back to 1.a (above), and your central question that still needs answers.

1.d -- same thing applies to your questions on the clutch -- I'd really like to hear a clear descriptive technical answer on that, too.

2.0 -- unless there is visible tearing, puncture holes or deep scratches (from rings on fingers, girlfriends' belt-buckles, the dog's toenails, etc.), I wouldn't spend too much time worrying about the creases / noted wear on the upholstery. Every used black-and-blue V70R interior I've ever seen looks a bit "beat up" -- some more than others. I can remember very dark blue upholstery in my sister's robin's egg blue MGB convertible back in the late 1960s. Great car and a hoot to drive; leather looked like crumpled blue photocopy paper after just one year (but the leather was quite durable regardless of how it was fading and creasing). Some think it shows "more character". Anyway, I think the 'R' leather appearance is on account of the visual contrast between the "core color" of the dyed leather, and the normal flex and wear points that end up being a lot lighter in color. Not like the Atacama that, from what I can tell so far, seems to have different properties. It seems a lot thicker / more durable (although I've read about staining / marks from water on Atacama; but not in my experience).

If the owner cared for the vehicle like you say, did he also treat the leather regularly? Whether he did or not, you can probably breathe some restorative life into the upholstery you are concerned about by being fairly vigilant about regular leather treatment. I've done that for many years with our 1998 S70 T5 SE with black leather, and it has paid off. I have always started off with "Armorall® leather care protectant". Sometimes, if I think of it, I also mix in "Mother's®" (a really old plastic bottle left over from more than a decade ago, but still works fine). Then it's "Technician's Choice® Vinyl Leather Cleaner with oil of mink" as a thorough finishing-up. With a couple of heavy shop towels, I really work these things into the seams, any cracks and wrinkles, and the overall surface. With this treatment about once every two or three weeks, the interior of the 1998 S70 is nothing short of amazing -- looks, feels, and works as new. Truly very high quality to begin with -- again, looks (and is) pretty well perfect, 14 hard years and 250K out. So, I am now doing the same thing with our new "old" 2004 V70R with the Atacama. My experience has been that it seems to take a while for regular treatment to make a visible difference and for the leather to be really supple -- you have to work at it -- but IMHO, the care is worth it in the end.

My three cents' worth for the day.

Good luck as you contemplate your purchase ...

Cheers / Blueleezard

links should be working now.

Thanks, flyfishing3 -- < http://v70r.com/forums/forum/63-buying-and-selling-tips-and-questions/ > seems to be working fine now.

[Bigfieroman]

I severely doubt that the warranty would be transferrable. It is designed to build customer relations and a history that would encourage all future Volvos to come from the same dealership. I live 5 hours away from the dealership.

Additionally, I would probably only accept the warranty if it was free; it requires that every scheduled maintenence be performed on time at THAT dealership. This would mean a 2-day trip every 9 months or so, just to maintain the warranty, which only covers the drivetrain. I am not sure it is worth it.

[Tzantushka1568908311]

Fiero-man

I’ll keep it brief, as I’m sure there will be others to ‘chime in’.

General

The car has done 75 k miles - so what you are describing sounds reasonable.

Expect wear and tear on the wear and tear items.

If the owner is more… er… mature – and has clearly looked after the car, then this is a very good sign.

E-brake

Relatively minor issue.

If you are handy with wrenches ask the vendor to reduce the price accordingly – or – get the dealer to replace the e-brake when they undertake the work around the angle gear.

Angle gear

Weepage – if you look at a number of other Rs you will see this often.

I like the idea of the vendor invoking his “non-transferable lifetime warranty on the drivetrain”. Get that sorted before you buy.

Failure – it really depends…

Angle gears that weep and lose oil tend to get noisy. Worst case is a bearing packs-up.

Catastrophic failure is often related to the collar sleeve that couples the transmission to the angle gear.

In rare cases the gear set fails, but failures to the angle gear can be exacerbated by extreme or aggressive driving styles. ‘Drifting’ or power slides in snow covered parking lots is not the best for the drive train.

Clutch slave

I don’t have a MT, so can’t speak from direct experience.

Some other things to watch out for:

4C suspension – make sure you can feel the difference in the 3 different modes

Shocks – take a quick look for obvious signs of leakage

Radiator – at this mileage worth checking the cooling system is tight.

As you orginally mentioned this will be your DD - seems OK for this.

Good luck with the purchase.

Trent

PS: agree with you on Mamils (middle-aged men in lycra)

[raeste]

Bottom line on Trent’s observations / comments:

1.0 re: angle gear questions – really valuable stuff. This information is precisely what was needed – these are all steps in the right direction.

2.0 re: spinning in the snow – first, let me reassure everyone that I am not advocating and have never advocated nor carried out anything remotely approaching “dangerous driving” in what I have written or described previously or in what follows, or at any time whatsoever. And second, in terms of care for the 'R', I am not advocating excessive and repeated stress on the angle gear, or the drive train generally – nobody in their right mind would do that.

But, there is a safety issue here. I do think that every ‘R’ owner really ought to learn what are reasonable limits of the ‘R’ under difficult conditions, and that we should contemplate learning this only without ever endangering anyone or anything, or putting the car in jeopardy. The idea is that this should happen well before any real conditions turn into a real problem. It is true that “Learning by experience” is fine, but I think “Learning through good preparation” is probably better!

What this means is: without ever doing damage to self, others, or property (and this includes protecting our respective investments in the 'R'), to be well prepared I think we all need to know what it feels and sounds like when the ‘R’ looses traction in bad conditions and then recovers, and what this means in terms of control. We need to know how it responds to inputs and settings and how it provides feedback to the driver when rough things are actually happening in situ as they say. To learn these things, I think we should engineer this to happen well before a real emergency or crisis that might take place (may the gods of Valhalla forbid such a thing from ever happening!).

So, this means consciously choosing to push the envelope on the ‘R’, at least somewhat. Not a lot, but just just enough to learn. And this should be done only under very special circumstances. The knowledge payoff by doing this at least once or twice – and definitely not as a regular event, which would border on abuse if not insanity – is carefully learning the “interaction space” between driver and car. This includes what we need to do, how to control, what to expect, and how to react in situations with the ‘R’ that are authentic, challenging, and perhaps bordering on what, under normal driving circumstances, would be an emergency or a real problem.

Following such a plan can also help us learn, where possible, how to avoid getting into problem situations in the first place. None of us want that, obviously. Of course, some things we just can’t plan for no matter what we do, and we have to take the consequences! But, it helps to learn before that ever really happens. So, at any rate, I would strongly recommend learning such things only when you have planned to do so in a very well controlled environment – in relative isolation and away from any traffic, when you and everyone else are safe and will remain safe, when complete controllable recovery is guaranteed, and when there is pretty well a guaranteed zero chance of damage of any kind.

There is always a risk, of course, but choosing to push the edge with the ‘R’ in extremely slippery Winter conditions (but as safe as humanly possible, and optimally controlled) will not likely produce drive train damage, IMHO – really, the idea isn't that different from driving in bad Winter conditions anyway. And, please note that I would never suggest doing any such thing on pavement, or on the variable boundaries between pavement and other surfaces, for example – where I would think the damage potential would be quite high given sudden torque changes, etc. However, a careful Winter experiment or two where traction is consistently very low will almost always teach you a great deal about what the vehicle can and cannot do, and how it will behave – very valuable visceral and practical knowledge if you ever find yourself in a truly problematic control situation.

Again, my three cents' worth.

Cheers / Blueleezard

[Bigfieroman]

I am kind of confused why someone would suggest that excessive or high-speed snow spinning would be bad for the drivetrain. The load applied to any of the wheels would be fairly minimal in this situation, and there certainly would not be any shock loading. The primary danger I could see in a situation like that would be to catch a patch of bare pavement; THAT would be a huge shock load if the wheels are doing 120mph and a tire suddenly does 3.

I got a call from the owner today. The dealership is fixing everything I pointed out, but they seem to think that the angle gear is fine. He will get me the report tomorrow when the car is done, but third-hand from the owner, they did some tests to determine if it was leaking and to check it out, and they seem to think it is good. When I looked at it, the angle gear had an oil stain showing weepage coming from the shaft seal on the passenger side, but it was not "wet". The metal just looked like it had been stained with oil, the sides and bottom were nearly dry. It is possible that it may not have leaked actively in some time. Could it be possible that it was leaking before, then they installed that new vent and refilled the unit as part of some other service stop without telling the owner, and now it is fine? If the angle gear is weeping, would it be literally wet with oil?

I thought I read on the forum somewhere about a angle gear reseal performed by an owner. I am sure I could do that myself, I just don't want to replace the unit; and if the dealer is checking it out, I will know it is good and may just be leaking at worst.

The parking brake was adjusted and a couple small broken or missing interior pieces will be replaced when the car is done tomorrow.

If the parking shoes were not replaced, I am sure I can do it myself and I will take a look ASAP to prevent delam...