Volvo Brad Posted April 9, 2020 Report Share Posted April 9, 2020 Hey everybody. I’m new to the forum, but not Volvos. I pulled a m56h transmission and all the corresponding parts from a 97 850 junker a few months ago. I’m going to be swapping all of that into my 98 S70 T5 automatic as soon as I’m healed up from a shoulder injury. I currently have 25mm IPD sways front and rear H&R lowering springs and Koni str.t Struts and Bilstein HD shocks. The car handles like a dream, and I’m ready to throw more power at it as soon as I’m done with the manual swap. I already have some basic power mods that are listed below. Current setup 2.5 inch cat back High flow cat 3 inch downpipe Snabb intake ARD tune Running around 17psi max boost pressure Long story short I’m planning on forged internals and a bigger turbo. A certain horsepower target isn’t really important to me just that it’s noticeably faster and even more of a joy to drive than it already is currently. I’m open to any suggestions and let me know if I left anything important out. Parts Forged Internals K1 Forged connecting rods with Glyco bearings (Glyco > OEM from what I’ve heard) Wiseco Forged pistons Fuel Pump Any suggestions for a beefier fuel pump? Preferably something that can just be swapped out. Fuel Injectors From what I’ve read needs to be at least 500cc. Fuel rail Will the stock rail support this? NA Cams Easy enough to grab at a junkyard NA Manifold and Throttle Body Increased flow is always good MAF Would the stock MAF support this? I’ve read of people using bigger housings with the stock MAF. Spark plugs Volvo OEM? Turbo The Garret gt3071r is what I’ve read that other people have been using for similar power goals. What kind of modifications need to be made for this to bolt in? I read that there’s a lip or something that needs to be machined down. Is the oil feed/ drain different? As for the downpipe I’ll have my local exhaust guy handle that. Also what should I do for the waste gate? I’ll be running a blow off valve. Any better options for turbos? Clutch and pressure plate I’ve read of people getting away with the 850r clutch, but I’m leaning towards a Spec clutch kit. LSD Hefty price tag... I'll probably do this at a later date. I know how to feather the throttle 😉 Engine build process I’ve read of people doing this multiple ways. The most appealing of which involves removing and rebuilding the head. Leaving the bottom end in the car dropping the oil pan removing the rods and pistons. Honing the cylinder walls with a drill bit attachment and not bother with removing the crank. Then reinstall everything. This would be super nice because I wouldn’t have to go out and buy an engine lift and stand. I also don’t have much room in the garage to begin with. Of course I can double check all the measurements and what not to make sure everything is in working order. I couldn’t imagine there’s any issues with the engine since it’s been in the family since new and has never been over heated. If there are any issues, I’ll have to bite the bullet and have a machinist have at it. Tuning I’ll have someone else do the tuning. I was planning on ARD, but their site is down for me… Not sure if they’re still even in business. I could use a local tuner. I’m in Tulsa and don’t know of any local Volvo tuners. I could probably tow it though. So if you know of any good tuners in say OKC, Dallas, Saint Louis, KC, Denver, or anything in that area of the country let me know. Thanks y’all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tighe Posted April 10, 2020 Report Share Posted April 10, 2020 https://vasttuning.com/ should be able to get you setup with a tune. He's a member here: @Tightmopedman9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volvo Brad Posted April 10, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2020 5 hours ago, tighe said: https://vasttuning.com/ should be able to get you setup with a tune. He's a member here: @Tightmopedman9 They look like a great option. I'll keep them in mind. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tightmopedman9 Posted April 11, 2020 Report Share Posted April 11, 2020 Yes you can replace the rods without pulling the motor, but it is a pain to check clearances and make sure everything is done correctly with the block in the car. The factory pistons can handle well over 400WHP so you don't need to replace them. Every whiteblock motor I've torn down has had cylinder walls worn well beyond spec, so I wouldn't recommend buying pistons for the stock bore size. I've run multiple engines over or near the 400WHP with completely stock internals. It is running on the edge of what is safe, but it can be done. I'd recommend sourcing a new engine block and building it out of the car, meanwhile you can get your current stock block up to 400WHP and when/if it bends a rod you can throw in the new built motor. For the engine you build out of the car you'll want to bore the cylinder walls to get them back into spec. I have yet see a motor that came from a running car that needed more than .5mm of an overbore. You'll need a torque plate to keep the bores from distorting when boring the block. I have one I can rent you that comes with a headgasket and head bolts. If you bore the block you'll need new pistons for the larger bore size and if you use new pistons you might as well order a custom set and get them spec'd to use the longer rod and crank combination. You can get 147mm rods with the tapered small end for cheap, and you can pull a 93.2mm crank out of a 2.5L RN block or RNC block. This will give you 2.4L of displacement and the preferable longer rod/stroke ratio. Fuel Pump The DW200 can support over 400WHP on gasoline. If you use the DW300 it can flow too much at idle and oversaturate the return line, causing the fuel pressure at idle to be higher than regulated by the FPR. Fuel Injectors For over 400WHP on gasoline I'd recommend the DW800 injectors, if you want to run E85 then their DW900 (1000cc @ 3bar) are a good choice. I have a dealer account with DW and can get a pump and/or injectors for you if you'd like. 500cc would be too small. Fuel rail The factory '98 fuel rail is good for a lot of power, well over 500WHP. NA Manifold and Throttle Body The NA throttle body doesn't net you more power, it just changes the throttle response. The NA intake manifold is used just so that you don't have to open the throttle body opening on a turbo manifold. MAF You'll need to upgrade your MAF housing. The MAF uses a heated resistor to measure the amount of air flowing past it. The more the resistor is cooled the more voltage will flow through the resistor. The most voltage that can flow through the resistor is 5V, so once the velocity of the incoming air reaches a point at which the resistor is cooled enough to flow 5V, the ECU can no longer register a greater amount of air entering the engine. To overcome this limit you can increase the size of the MAF housing, thus decreasing the velocity of the airflow and increasing the limit at which the resistor flows 5v. On a MAF housing this limit is 826kg/hr, or about 250WHP. For 400WHP you'd need to run a 3.5" outer diameter housing, like this one: https://www.ebay.com/itm/3-5-OD-MAF-Mass-Air-Flow-Housing-Air-Straightener-for-VW-MK3-GTI-BMW-M62-Volvo/253224903302?hash=item3af5616286:g:63sAAOSwyUFcB9z3:sc:USPSPriority!80219!US!-1 Spark plugs The NGK BKR7E is a one step colder than stock plug and is an inexpensive copper plug easily available at almost every auto parts store. They make a platinum and iridium equivalent as well. Turbo The GT3071R is a large turbo for 400WHP. It can do closer to 550WHP. If you want to stay with Garrett the GTX2867R would be a much better fit for 400WHP. With that said I've been putting together a TD06 20G 'kit' that could do a bit over 400WHP. It comes with a Kinugawa turbo, a 'R' manifold milled flat for the standard T3 flange and studs enlarged to M10, stud kit, oil and water lines and a downpipe adapter. This turbo would have an integrated CBV so you wouldn't have to worry about adding you own. It also would be internally gated so you wouldn't have to worry about adding and external wastegate. The kit is $1800. Clutch and pressure plate I would recommend a Sachs 707 pressure plate with a 850R clutch disc. It's a proven setup to over 650WHP and drives great on the street. It usually costs less than a SPEC setup that is rated to the same equivalent power, and SPEC has a bit of a poor reputation in the Volvo world. You mentioned a BOV - you never want to run a vent to atmosphere on a MAF equipped car. Once air passes through the MAF sensor the ECU assumes that all that air will go into the engine and calculates the amount of fuel needed based on it. If you vent the air out of the intake tract, like this BOV, then the car will run rich. When you are under boost at part throttle the BOV will open a little bit. When this happens the car will start to run rich, then the fuel trims will start to intervene and will pull fuel to make the car run leaner. As soon as you back off the throttle the BOV will close, but the fuel trims will still be negative, so now the car will be lean. If you want to run the car on gasoline I'd highly recommend running water methanol injection. The stage 1 snow performance kit is all you need. It greatly helps reduce the likliehood of knock and can allow you to run a lot more boost and ignition timing than would otherwise be possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volvo Brad Posted April 11, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2020 2 hours ago, Tightmopedman9 said: Yes you can replace the rods without pulling the motor, but it is a pain to check clearances and make sure everything is done correctly with the block in the car. The factory pistons can handle well over 400WHP so you don't need to replace them. Every whiteblock motor I've torn down has had cylinder walls worn well beyond spec, so I wouldn't recommend buying pistons for the stock bore size. I've run multiple engines over or near the 400WHP with completely stock internals. It is running on the edge of what is safe, but it can be done. I'd recommend sourcing a new engine block and building it out of the car, meanwhile you can get your current stock block up to 400WHP and when/if it bends a rod you can throw in the new built motor. For the engine you build out of the car you'll want to bore the cylinder walls to get them back into spec. I have yet see a motor that came from a running car that needed more than .5mm of an overbore. You'll need a torque plate to keep the bores from distorting when boring the block. I have one I can rent you that comes with a headgasket and head bolts. If you bore the block you'll need new pistons for the larger bore size and if you use new pistons you might as well order a custom set and get them spec'd to use the longer rod and crank combination. You can get 147mm rods with the tapered small end for cheap, and you can pull a 93.2mm crank out of a 2.5L RN block or RNC block. This will give you 2.4L of displacement and the preferable longer rod/stroke ratio. I'll plan on keeping the pistons stock then. I'll keep an eye out and see if a good engine pops up somewhere, but I'm still leaning towards keeping the original engine. Is there a tool that would allow you to check the bore through the spark plug hole? I did do a compression test recently with the following numbers 137, 138, 148, 145, 149 dry and no result, 156, 168, 179, 169 wet. If I do have to have it bored I'll have to pull the block anyways and take it to a machine shop. The longer crank rod combo seems like a good option, but would it not be simpler to just swap in forged rods and leave the existing crank? 2 hours ago, Tightmopedman9 said: Fuel Pump The DW200 can support over 400WHP on gasoline. If you use the DW300 it can flow too much at idle and oversaturate the return line, causing the fuel pressure at idle to be higher than regulated by the FPR. Perfect! The DW200 looks great and I'll be sticking to gasoline. 2 hours ago, Tightmopedman9 said: For over 400WHP on gasoline I'd recommend the DW800 injectors, if you want to run E85 then their DW900 (1000cc @ 3bar) are a good choice. I have a dealer account with DW and can get a pump and/or injectors for you if you'd like. 500cc would be too small. Alright! Is there any other injectors you'd consider as well? 2 hours ago, Tightmopedman9 said: MAF You'll need to upgrade your MAF housing. The MAF uses a heated resistor to measure the amount of air flowing past it. The more the resistor is cooled the more voltage will flow through the resistor. The most voltage that can flow through the resistor is 5V, so once the velocity of the incoming air reaches a point at which the resistor is cooled enough to flow 5V, the ECU can no longer register a greater amount of air entering the engine. To overcome this limit you can increase the size of the MAF housing, thus decreasing the velocity of the airflow and increasing the limit at which the resistor flows 5v. On a MAF housing this limit is 826kg/hr, or about 250WHP. For 400WHP you'd need to run a 3.5" outer diameter housing, like this one: https://www.ebay.com/itm/3-5-OD-MAF-Mass-Air-Flow-Housing-Air-Straightener-for-VW-MK3-GTI-BMW-M62-Volvo/253224903302?hash=item3af5616286:g:63sAAOSwyUFcB9z3:sc:USPSPriority!80219!US!-1 Understood, I'll plan on upgrading to 3.5" housing. 2 hours ago, Tightmopedman9 said: Spark plugs The NGK BKR7E is a one step colder than stock plug and is an inexpensive copper plug easily available at almost every auto parts store. They make a platinum and iridium equivalent as well. Perfect! 2 hours ago, Tightmopedman9 said: Turbo The GT3071R is a large turbo for 400WHP. It can do closer to 550WHP. If you want to stay with Garrett the GTX2867R would be a much better fit for 400WHP. With that said I've been putting together a TD06 20G 'kit' that could do a bit over 400WHP. It comes with a Kinugawa turbo, a 'R' manifold milled flat for the standard T3 flange and studs enlarged to M10, stud kit, oil and water lines and a downpipe adapter. This turbo would have an integrated CBV so you wouldn't have to worry about adding you own. It also would be internally gated so you wouldn't have to worry about adding and external wastegate. The kit is $1800. That kit seems like a great option. A little more than I was hoping to spend on the turbo but I'll definitely consider this. I'll follow up with you if this ends up being what I decide on. 2 hours ago, Tightmopedman9 said: Clutch and pressure plate I would recommend a Sachs 707 pressure plate with a 850R clutch disc. It's a proven setup to over 650WHP and drives great on the street. It usually costs less than a SPEC setup that is rated to the same equivalent power, and SPEC has a bit of a poor reputation in the Volvo world. 850R clutch looks perfect. Is there a cheaper option for the pressure plate? The sachs is listed for $570 on Viva. 2 hours ago, Tightmopedman9 said: You mentioned a BOV - you never want to run a vent to atmosphere on a MAF equipped car. Once air passes through the MAF sensor the ECU assumes that all that air will go into the engine and calculates the amount of fuel needed based on it. If you vent the air out of the intake tract, like this BOV, then the car will run rich. When you are under boost at part throttle the BOV will open a little bit. When this happens the car will start to run rich, then the fuel trims will start to intervene and will pull fuel to make the car run leaner. As soon as you back off the throttle the BOV will close, but the fuel trims will still be negative, so now the car will be lean. If you want to run the car on gasoline I'd highly recommend running water methanol injection. The stage 1 snow performance kit is all you need. It greatly helps reduce the likliehood of knock and can allow you to run a lot more boost and ignition timing than would otherwise be possible. Makes total sense I'll stick to the cbv. I'll do some research into water methanol injection. Also is there any benefit to be had with the NA cams? Do you know if the 850 manual pedal assembly fits in the s70? I've heard mix things on the forums. Thanks again man this info was super helpful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmsgltr Posted April 13, 2020 Report Share Posted April 13, 2020 oooo that 20g kit is enticing! didnt know about that in the works! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tighe Posted April 13, 2020 Report Share Posted April 13, 2020 3 hours ago, gmsgltr said: oooo that 20g kit is enticing! didnt know about that in the works! My first thought too! Mine's running well though and has traction issues as is without an LSD, so no real need to upgrade... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyb5 Posted April 13, 2020 Report Share Posted April 13, 2020 @Tightmopedman9 can you elaborate on the DW300 idle pressure issues? What car, what fuel pressure, etc? I was gonna run a DW300 in my 00 R, but don't want to cause problems for myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tightmopedman9 Posted April 14, 2020 Report Share Posted April 14, 2020 On 4/11/2020 at 3:59 PM, Volvo Brad said: Is there a tool that would allow you to check the bore through the spark plug hole? I did do a compression test recently with the following numbers 137, 138, 148, 145, 149 dry and no result, 156, 168, 179, 169 wet. If I do have to have it bored I'll have to pull the block anyways and take it to a machine shop. The longer crank rod combo seems like a good option, but would it not be simpler to just swap in forged rods and leave the existing crank? It is not possible to check the bore through the spark hole. You need a dial bore gauge, and you'll only get an accurate reading if you have a torque plate on the block when taking the measurement. Without any of the tools it'd be a ~$300 investment to be able to measure the bores accurately. It depends on how you define simpler. It would cost less, and might take less time, but it will be much more of a pain in the ass to assemble and clean everything. You can't bore the block unless you completely disassemble it, which includes removing the crank. There really is no compromise between convenience and quality when it comes to building an engine. Many people have swapped rods with the engine in the car, myself included. The thing is, it results in a far less than perfect outcome, so you might as well spend 50% more to just do it right the first time. On 4/11/2020 at 3:59 PM, Volvo Brad said: 850R clutch looks perfect. Is there a cheaper option for the pressure plate? The sachs is listed for $570 on Viva. The 850R clutch kit (pressure plate and disc) will hold up to 400WHP, probably a little more. I ran it on my own car when it was making 415WHP. It would slip when shifting aggressively from 2-3rd occasionally. The R clutch kit won't work with a smaller TD04HL turbo though, as these turbos generate lots of low RPM torque which causes the clutch to slip. The Sachs 707 pressure plate with the 850R disc is your cheapest option for reliably holding 400WHP+. On 4/11/2020 at 3:59 PM, Volvo Brad said: Also is there any benefit to be had with the NA cams? They're dyno proven to gain 10-15WHP. On 4/11/2020 at 3:59 PM, Volvo Brad said: Do you know if the 850 manual pedal assembly fits in the s70? I've heard mix things on the forums. It does, in fact it's much easier to swap in because the pedal assembly is two pieces, unlike the 850 assembly which you can't separate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volvo Brad Posted April 14, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2020 2 hours ago, Tightmopedman9 said: no compromise between convenience and quality when it comes to building an engine. That's the conclusion I've landed on. I'll have to do the full tear down and find a good machinist who knows what they're doing. 2 hours ago, Tightmopedman9 said: The 850R clutch kit (pressure plate and disc) will hold up to 400WHP, probably a little more. I ran it on my own car when it was making 415WHP. It would slip when shifting aggressively from 2-3rd occasionally. The R clutch kit won't work with a smaller TD04HL turbo though, as these turbos generate lots of low RPM torque which causes the clutch to slip. The Sachs 707 pressure plate with the 850R disc is your cheapest option for reliably holding 400WHP+. Slipping is no good! I'll shop around a bit and see if I can't find a better deal I'm in no rush. Thanks again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rinkymehra Posted May 14, 2020 Report Share Posted May 14, 2020 Is there a tool that would allow you to check the bore through the spark plug hole? Regards, tubemate apk stream videos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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