1998 S70 T5 M Transmission/Clutch Issue

[Estey_T5M]

The other day my 1998 S70 T5M started having shifting problems with it becoming very hard to shift from gear to gear. Then at a stop sign, it no longer would shift and ended up stalling. With the car turned off, you can move the shifter into all gears but when you turn the car on, it won't shift. It also idles very rough when starting it in first. 

Any ideas what the cause/problem would be? The car has just shy of 200k miles on it. A local mechanic said that it's either a broken transmission or needs a new clutch kit, but would be 400-500 in just labor to pull the transmission to see what the issue even was. 

Is this something worth fixing? Should I part it out? Sell as is?

Any insight and guidance is appreciated!

[Zappo]

Was your clutch engagement changing when it started to get harder to shift?  Normally it is in the middle of the pedal stroke, but did it move closer to the floor?  I am guessing your clutch slave cylinder may be leaking.

As for the rough idle, does it idle fine if you start it in neutral?

[Estey_T5M]

I honestly didn't notice much change in the clutch pedal prior to it happening. Only that it just started to become very hard to shift and then eventually wouldn't shift. 

And yes, it idles fine when started in neutral (just not in when starting in gear). What would that mean? 

[Zappo]

I am pretty sure when the slave cylinder is failing the pedal engagement drops lower of the floor, similar to when you have a leak in the brakes.  It idles rough because its actually trying to engage the transmission even though your foot is too the floor on the clutch.

Since you are a 98, the slave is most likely on the outside of the transmission and not that difficult to access. It is mounted on the front side of the transmission attached to the clutch fork.  The hydraulic system for it uses brake fluid from the brake reservoir, so you may see that you are low on brake fluid as well.  Does the clutch pedal have the normal weight to it when pressing it all the way to the floor, or does it seem lighter than normal through the first part of it?

However, I believe the later 98 models were transitioning to the internal slave which would require pulling the transmission out to service it.  The newer models combine the slave and the throw out bearing into one unit.

[gdog]

I've seen pressure plate beginning to fail also cause this behavior; FYI.

Also may want to check oil level in trans too.

[Estey_T5M]

7 hours ago, Zappo said:

I am pretty sure when the slave cylinder is failing the pedal engagement drops lower of the floor, similar to when you have a leak in the brakes.  It idles rough because its actually trying to engage the transmission even though your foot is too the floor on the clutch.

Since you are a 98, the slave is most likely on the outside of the transmission and not that difficult to access. It is mounted on the front side of the transmission attached to the clutch fork.  The hydraulic system for it uses brake fluid from the brake reservoir, so you may see that you are low on brake fluid as well.  Does the clutch pedal have the normal weight to it when pressing it all the way to the floor, or does it seem lighter than normal through the first part of it?

However, I believe the later 98 models were transitioning to the internal slave which would require pulling the transmission out to service it.  The newer models combine the slave and the throw out bearing into one unit.

The clutch does seem to have normal weight and pressure behind it. I'm not at the car now but I don't remember it being clear that it just went right to the floor. 

What would be the time/skill to replace the slave? My father and I have a bit of knowledge but don't want to bite off more than we can chew. And also want to make sure it's worth fixing (not wanting to replace the entire transmission). 

2 hours ago, gdog said:

I've seen pressure plate beginning to fail also cause this behavior; FYI.

Also may want to check oil level in trans too.

Is there a good way to test the pressure plate for failure or would I need to remove it? If so, what does that entail?

Will check the transmission fluid too.

Thanks!

[Zappo]

Slave would be relatively easy to replace if it is external, but bleeding it takes time.  It isn't quite like bleeding brakes.

If the pressure plate is going, there isn't an easy way to test it that I can think of.  I've never had one fail on me before on any car I've owned.  I tend to rip the centers out of the clutch disks or pop a spring out of one.

You can also check your shifter cables for any binding.  I do remember after installing a short shifter plate on my Volvo that it started to be difficult to get into gear after a few weeks. Loosened it up and the problem went away.  That probably isn't your issue though since you say with the car off it shifts into gear just fine.

 

[Estey_T5M]

13 hours ago, Zappo said:

Slave would be relatively easy to replace if it is external, but bleeding it takes time.  It isn't quite like bleeding brakes.

If the pressure plate is going, there isn't an easy way to test it that I can think of.  I've never had one fail on me before on any car I've owned.  I tend to rip the centers out of the clutch disks or pop a spring out of one.

You can also check your shifter cables for any binding.  I do remember after installing a short shifter plate on my Volvo that it started to be difficult to get into gear after a few weeks. Loosened it up and the problem went away.  That probably isn't your issue though since you say with the car off it shifts into gear just fine.

 

Do you need to remove the front subframe and transmission to change out the pressure plate? 

I did install a short shifter plate a few years back and do remember it being a little more difficult to ship after that but it's never caused this issue. Maybe something to still check out though? 

[Zappo]

10 hours ago, Estey_T5M said:

Do you need to remove the front subframe and transmission to change out the pressure plate? 

Yes, the subframe and transmission need to be removed to access it.  That's why I am looking at stuff that is easy to check before the difficult ones.

[RobT5M]

20 hours ago, Estey_T5M said:

I did install a short shifter plate a few years back and do remember it being a little more difficult to ship after that but it's never caused this issue. Maybe something to still check out though? 

You could give it a check, realistically on the list of cost, that's free and should be your first item to look at.
 

[Estey_T5M]

Update from mechanic: They were able to drive the car (pumping the clutch a few times rapidly made the clutch work) and they are now thinking a clutch throw out bearing issue and would need a new clutch kit. Getting quoted around $1200 with labor and parts, best case scenario. 

Another issue is around the condition of the car. I was told this past May when it went for inspection that there was rust around the pinch wells and rockers and that they weren't sure how many more inspections it would pass. I don't want to put $1200 into a car only to have it run for 6 months or so. 

What are my options? Part it? Sell as is? Fix it?

Thanks! 

[RobT5M]

15 minutes ago, Estey_T5M said:

Update from mechanic: They were able to drive the car (pumping the clutch a few times rapidly made the clutch work) and they are now thinking a clutch throw out bearing issue and would need a new clutch kit. Getting quoted around $1200 with labor and parts, best case scenario. 

Another issue is around the condition of the car. I was told this past May when it went for inspection that there was rust around the pinch wells and rockers and that they weren't sure how many more inspections it would pass. I don't want to put $1200 into a car only to have it run for 6 months or so. 

What are my options? Part it? Sell as is? Fix it?

Thanks! 

Depending on how mechanically inclined you are, you could attempt to do the repair yourself. 

It's not an impossible job, but its definitely one you need tools and space for. 

I'm not sure the cost of a clutch kit currently, but I know when I did my manual swap years ago, it ran me about 500 for a R clutch kit. 
I believe the throw out is fairly cheap.
$1200 does sound reasonable for the repair at a shop given the labor involved. 

 

Ultimately those are your options that you've stated and its up to you. 
You could check out the rust yourself, or even ask your mechanic to look and see how hard its going to be to have it repaired, if your catching it early enough it might be as simple as a wire-brush and spray paint.

[Zappo]

If the mechanic pumped it a few times quickly and was able to shift, that means it is the slave.  If they want to change the throw out bearing, it must mean it is internal slave.  Before you commit to $1200, I would verify it is actually internal and not external.

If you are in there, you want to do the whole clutch kit as well as the rear main seal. They start leaking at some point and it is a cheap part, so do it while they have easy access already.

 

[RobT5M]

8 minutes ago, Zappo said:

If the mechanic pumped it a few times quickly and was able to shift, that means it is the slave.  If they want to change the throw out bearing, it must mean it is internal slave.  Before you commit to $1200, I would verify it is actually internal and not external.

If you are in there, you want to do the whole clutch kit as well as the rear main seal. They start leaking at some point and it is a cheap part, so do it while they have easy access already.

 

1000x times this. 

If you ever have to remove the transmission, spend the $20-30 more and put an OEM rear main seal in.
If you end up having the shop do it, ask them to replace it while there, and ask that they use an OEM seal.
So many people have to repull the trans because the RMS started leaking after.

[Estey_T5M]

Update on this:

The mechanic believes that this issue would be solved with a new clutch kit ($1200-$1500) to fix up. 

The other issue that is coming into play is rust on the frame/rocker panels. May 2021 when I got the car inspected, the mechanic told me that there was rust on the frame and rocker panels and that he was not sure how many more inspections it would pass. Vermont (where I live) has pretty strict laws about rust on frames. Honestly, I'm not wanting to put the money into fixing this if it might now pass inspection this coming spring. 

I've debated holding onto it, parting it, or selling as is. I know the 1998 T5-M models are pretty rare and would love to keep my hands on this but not sure if that is practical. 

Any thoughts or opinions on this? Would I regret parting/selling it down the road?