laird Posted August 20, 2004 Report Share Posted August 20, 2004 R.E. WMDs, the N Koreans will perfect their product before using it. They still have plenty of your money left to do that.(lets see, where did all those millions come from again?) The minute Saddam had a nuke, it would have been going off somewhere. The minute any of his followers get a nuke or something nasty, it will go off somewhere. The unfortunate thing is, If Kerry is elected and any thing bad happens, ever, it will be Bush's fault, if Bush is reelected, it will be Bush's fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fromtheshadows Posted August 22, 2004 Report Share Posted August 22, 2004 you guys can attack each others politics all you want but the fact is all you really know is what they sold you. issues like N korea and the vietnam war have little bearing on who will be the better leader. 9/11 happened because of our allied union and funding of Israel. Most of the muslim people know this. so to justify the Iraq war as retribution is going to be met with ridicule by anyone who isn't an ethnocentric american. Invading Iraq was a convenient way to help fight a holy war that we are all too familiar with. It is a way to take out one of the most prominent muslim countries in the area because, in the american mind Israel is the good guy and the muslim fundamentalists need to be put in check. well, it has spilled onto our doorstep now. I have never supported our foreign policy on the coddling of ariel sharon. hes a prick. Not saying I have an answer on how to restore peace in the middle east, but I did see this coming. I have arabic friends that are scared for their families because they realize Hamas are among us. Its a scary thought, but they are guerillas.we've been giving Israel a lot of money for a long time that they have been using to fight their enemies, and squandering without a proper democracy in place. like thats not going to piss someone off? tell me we couldnt use the money for ourselveshttp://www.wrmea.com/html/us_aid_to_israel.htm read a little on > this site for me I dont think kerry will pull funding from israel, or that he will be a good president in my opinion, but I already know that Bush IS a liar ,whether or not he knows it , and I CAN attack his character, or lack therof, because he is the most public of figures. I do know what he is trying to sell me, its I'm dumb. I dont need any more of that ive seen enough under this topic, i want what bush cant give me, a more efficient fuel source, cleaner air and a better waste management system. cleaner water... . i vote for people who can think for themselves, I vote for the environment and i think kerry is a step in the right direction. oh,..and die hard republicans are so one sided they lack depth. nothing wrong with shallow ppl though it takes all kinds.sorry for the long post but i was bored. ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ontheheel Posted August 22, 2004 Report Share Posted August 22, 2004 well i'm so glad you have such insight into my character and personality yes, we did get hit on 9/11 PARTIALLY for our support of israel. if you had read bin ladens letter to the us, you would realize that that is far from the ONLY reason. one of the biggest points he made was that he wanted to destroy america because it is a moral vacuum.also, i support israel. this is primarily due to the fact that their entire existence has been met with persecution wherever they have been. even back before the romans tried to wipe them from the face of the earth. then the "holy" roman empire tried to wipe them from the face of the earth. the third reich also tried to wipe them from the face of the earth. stalin tried to wipe them from the face of the earth. out of all the ethnic groups on this planet, i don't know of another who has faced an enemy so many times that was bent on exterminating them. so when the UN created israel in 1949 to try to give them a place where they could be safe, the entire arab world was in uproar and guess what they wanted to do? ding ding ding---wipe them from the face of the earth! the arab world found out the hard way that they couldn't get rid of israel with conventional warfare, so now they have been dealing with terrorism for quite some time. it is not some attempt for equality or to liberate the palestenian people, as they say to garner support from the western world. it is a blatant and racist attempt to get rid of the jews once and for all. i don't understand how the world is so opposed to racism and turns a blind eye to this fact...unless the ones turning a blind eye are anti-semites themselves. it's not the policy that sharon or israel pursues that the arab world abhors, it is the jews themselves. they are considered to be the scourge of the earth and unfit to be more than dog feces in their minds.cultural relativism can get you in just as much trouble as ethnocentrism, if you have no principles(or in this case if you have them for some things and ignore them for others). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InlineTurbo Posted August 23, 2004 Report Share Posted August 23, 2004 cultural relativism can get you in just as much trouble as ethnocentrism, if you have no principles(or in this case if you have them for some things and ignore them for others).←You are trying to argue using logic. It will never work on the liberal mind. Things like objective facts and reality as opposed to idealism just don't sink in. Never mind that the stated goal from the leaders of Palestine are to "drive the Jews into the sea." Never mind that John Kerry is on the record lying and changing his stance so many times he could start a tornado. He doesn't even hide it. When Micheal Moore is on the attack with unsubstantiated claims he is a hero to John Kerry. When hundreds of decorated war vets are trying to correct the record (We know for a fact that Kerry is lying about spending Christmas in Cambodia, We know he is lying in his account about how he rescued Rassman) they are attacked viciously and Kerry tries to get their book banned. Censorhip anyone? Of course censorship can only come if it is a Republican doing it. If you are George Sorros spending billions funding democrat attack ads it is ok. If you are a republican it is outragous!!!! Remember that John Kerry is from the party that made demagoguery their major political weapon. Whatever happend to people like John Kennedy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wills Posted August 23, 2004 Report Share Posted August 23, 2004 This tells me all I need to know about Lurch. Kerry on Iraq Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fromtheshadows Posted August 23, 2004 Report Share Posted August 23, 2004 ha ha yeah whatever, support for israel only partially responsible? yeah ok, stuff. if we had not been supporting israel it wouldnt have happened. period everything else is nothing at all. and i wish the labels like liberal would cease its just an attack labels are just trying to put someone far to the left or right. ...dont mind you being for the support if israel. but 14,000 dollars per israeli? isnt it enough weve given them our military support ensuring that they will not be wiped out? what do they produce? ....uh, nothing. I wouldn't mind supporting them if as you say they are only just a persecuted ppl. only innocents subject to persecution. however,there are 149 substantive articles of the Fourth Geneva Convention that protect the rights of every one of these Palestinians living in occupied Palestine, right, in case you didnt know, The Israeli Government is currently violating, and has since 1967 been violating, almost each and every one of these sacred rights of the Palestinian People recognized by the Fourth Geneva Convention. Indeed, violations of the Fourth Geneva Convention are war crimes. So this is not a symmetrical situation. As matters of fact and of law, the gross and repeated violations of Palestinian rights by the Israeli army and Israeli settlers living illegally in occupied Palestine constitute war crimes. Conversely, the Palestinian people are defending themselves and their land and their homes against Israeli war crimes and Israeli war criminals, both military and civilian. and that is fact. ....belive it or not, palestinians dont want to invade israel. They want to have their freedom. In operative paragraph 1 of its 19 October 2000 Resolution, the U.N. Human Rights Commission then: "Strongly condemns the disproportionate and indiscriminate use of force in violation of international humanitarian law by the Israeli occupying Power against innocent and unarmed Palestinian civilians...including many children, in the occupied territories, which constitutes a war crime and a crime against humanity..." And in paragraph 5 of its 19 October 2000 Resolution, the U.N. Human Rights Commission:"Also affirms that the deliberate and systematic killing of civilians and children by the Israeli occupying authorities constitutes a flagrant and grave violation of the right to life and also constitutes a crime against humanity;..." Article 68 of the United Nations Charter had expressly required the U.N.'s Economic and Social Council to "set up" this Commission "for the promotion of human rights."and i totally lifted that part. ....so you support giving money to criminals? They have been in active pusuit of a holy war...if youre for that, ...well. has nothing to do with our future leadership....which might be a choice of the lesser of two evils. as a disclaimer, I have Jewish friends and even a few Israeli Jewish friends who do not support the current Isralei prime ministers Al Aqsa Intifada. Hey wanna hear something ironic?...bet ya dont. The whole idea of "crimes against humanity" and the criterion for these said crimes were established in the Nuremberg Charter of 1945 for the trial of the major Nazi war criminals. These criteria, adopted by the U.N. human rights commision, fits what Israel is doing to the Palestinian people.....this is no lie, this is legal fact....so you know what you can go do with your kinda sheep-like logic:lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fromtheshadows Posted August 23, 2004 Report Share Posted August 23, 2004 even if you don't like my opinion, think of the FUTURE. how will your grandchildrens quality of life be?...great granchildren?http://www.nrdc.org/bushrecord/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fromtheshadows Posted August 23, 2004 Report Share Posted August 23, 2004 please refrain from the tree-hugger comments. oh by the way im 1/16th native american...if you want to talk about persecution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fromtheshadows Posted August 23, 2004 Report Share Posted August 23, 2004 figure id post this seperate...as far as kerry lying about his war record. well, Kerry had already served A FULL TOUR and got out after four months of his SECOND TOUR to pursue a career in politics. Voluntarily enlisted in 1966, voluntarily signed up for second tour in 1968. And how long was Bush there? Right. Sounds to me like we're going after the wrong guy, aren't we? we in the military call (yes we IN THE MILITARY) anyone not present for 30 days AWOL ...yeah a deserter...so instead of attacking kerry we should be COMPARING kerry to bush. is there anything , short of having a fatcat father to get him out of serving in the US military, that george w. has done better than Kerry? i vote for Bush in the Pussying out category for sure.btw im gonna lift something a friend said...ready? "I consider myself environmentally aware, and generally for enviromental regulation. I am hereby stating I wiped my bum with two or three wads of toilet paper this morning. If I run for president in 30 years, I wouldn't at all be surprised if the Republicans go digging in the cesspool to count the wads. And if they find I actually used FOUR WADS they'd be cranking up the presses... ' "So called environmentally-aware candidate wastes paper and lies about it in writing." ' In fact I wouldn't be surprised if they did no investigating at all and got the talking heads to say it anyway. It's the republican way."-name withheld...but he's right, ask a real POW (like John McCain), not some paid off vet, one of which recanted cause he got in trouble, what the real story of VIetnam was...and you know what im saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laird Posted August 23, 2004 Report Share Posted August 23, 2004 you guys can attack each others politics all you want but the fact is all you really know is what they sold you. issues like N korea and the vietnam war have little bearing on who will be the better leader. 9/11 happened because of our allied union and funding of Israel. Most of the muslim people know this. so to justify the Iraq war as retribution is going to be met with ridicule by anyone who isn't an ethnocentric american. Invading Iraq was a convenient way to help fight a holy war that we are all too familiar with. It is a way to take out one of the most prominent muslim countries in the area because, in the american mind Israel is the good guy and the muslim fundamentalists need to be put in check. well, it has spilled onto our doorstep now. I have never supported our foreign policy on the coddling of ariel sharon. hes a prick. Not saying I have an answer on how to restore peace in the middle east, but I did see this coming. I have arabic friends that are scared for their families because they realize Hamas are among us. Its a scary thought, but they are guerillas.we've been giving Israel a lot of money for a long time that they have been using to fight their enemies, and squandering without a proper democracy in place. like thats not going to piss someone off? tell me we couldnt use the money for ourselveshttp://www.wrmea.com/html/us_aid_to_israel.htm read a little on > this site for me I dont think kerry will pull funding from israel, or that he will be a good president in my opinion, but I already know that Bush IS a liar ,whether or not he knows it , and I CAN attack his character, or lack therof, because he is the most public of figures. I do know what he is trying to sell me, its I'm dumb. I dont need any more of that ive seen enough under this topic, i want what bush cant give me, a more efficient fuel source, cleaner air and a better waste management system. cleaner water... . i vote for people who can think for themselves, I vote for the environment and i think kerry is a step in the right direction. oh,..and die hard republicans are so one sided they lack depth. nothing wrong with shallow ppl though it takes all kinds.sorry for the long post but i was bored. ...←I was wondering how it is that I only know what "they" have sold me and you have all of the facts? Oh I get it your getting your "facts" from the web, that splanesit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ontheheel Posted August 23, 2004 Report Share Posted August 23, 2004 ha ha yeah whatever, support for israel only partially responsible? yeah ok, stuff. ←ok, now i'm done listening to you. BIN LADEN HIMSELF SAID THAT!would you like for me to shed a tear for you because you are 1/16 part of an ethnic group? i'm sorry, i've got indian blood in me as well(enough to pay very little for school, if my family had actually registered), as do some of my friends. we don't go around crying about persecution because that has absolutley nothing to do with us.as far as israel, i do not condone every move they make. i can understand, however that they are on edge because every palestenian is a potential suicide bomber. do you really think that if israel just shrank back down and dismantled all the objectionable settlements, that the bombers would stop? if so, i feel very sorry for your naivety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdizzle Posted August 23, 2004 Report Share Posted August 23, 2004 (edited) please refrain from the tree-hugger comments. oh by the way im 1/16th native american...if you want to talk about persecution.←1/16TH!!! I'm Irish, you don't hear me bitchin about persecution!! 1/16th!!!Man....that's funny! I'm 5/32 eskimo! :lol: Edited August 23, 2004 by gdogg16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fromtheshadows Posted August 23, 2004 Report Share Posted August 23, 2004 wow. where do I start? I prefer to get mt information from a source thats not government controlled and funded. Maybe you should expose yourself to the knowledge of the information superhighway. Use your own critical thinking skills. by what "they sold you" I meant the govt. ...genius. you should all go to U.S. newswire more often and find real news like that http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=34104do you have kids? if they killed someone would you cut their allowance? if you didnt deal out some form of punitive action I think you WOULD be condoning their behavior?..no? stop lying to yourself.and if you were following the thread there was a comment on how the israeli jewish ppl have been the most persecuted throughout history. I didnt ask for your sympathy, i dont need it. I'm doing fine, no thank you. I was proving your bias and willingness to talk out of the wrong end. Not belittling the Irish struggle either, I'm sure you, as an American, are also doing fine yourself. How about addressing the healthcare worker shortage? what will Bush do? I dont care what any of you think, but I'm for socializing medicine. This would kill more than two birds with one stone. We have no chance for this under Bush. Noone has said anything about Bush's environmental policies...please someone defend them. Name one thing Bush has over Kerry, but you have to prove it. no biased republican conservative whatever crap. 3 purple hearts + 1 brain = 4 better years in my opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdizzle Posted August 24, 2004 Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 http://forums.swedespeed.com/zerothread?id=25065 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbor850 Posted August 24, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 okay, whos the as sclown that moved this to off topic ?this is a pole people . . . . I WANT ANSWERS ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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