Is There A God Or Supreme Being?

[the underlørd]

Sorry, I can't go on for much longer right now but I'll try to explain better...

Virtually all of the countries/states that contributed to the creation of Western Civ today were founded on or possesed a highly religeous society. Arabic Numbers, The Athenians and democracy, Europe during the Renaissance, North America settled to be free of religeous persecution in England and then the creation of the US, etc.

Sorry, I gotta go for now...

free from religious persecution.. exactly. now, think of the whole world free from religion, and religious persecution.. would be a better place wouldn't it. Me thinks so.

[whitev70r]

Just name one...

The Soviet Union ?

Actually, the old Russia/Soviet Union has a lot of Eastern Orthodox influence

[djscoggins]

Kinda long but I would like to address a few comments And Im not a bible thumper, I just like to share my faith whenever there is an oppurtunity.

1."religion is a crutch for weak people.it's been a shitty week. sorry."

Im sorry you feel that way... do you think that the founding fathers, some of which who fought and died so we can all be free, were weak? because this country was founded on christian values and biblical commandments.

2."Nope. Just human nature making stuff up"

If humans made up the whole thing don't you think that the bible would contridict itself alot? I mean if it is indeed a lie? Lets Its not easy to keep your story straight if you are lying.

3."No I don't believe there is a GOD. Or any supreme Being.

It's a load of crock."

Do you belive in good and evil? Who would you call out to for help if you were alone and faced imminent danger or death?

4."lol..lets not go into a debate, but there are no facts about religion other than that its bull. There's nothing to "learn" only fairy tales."

This is a good one... which states "Lets not debate" and then "There are no facts other than that it is bull" which says I know fact and all others are merely opinions. Thats a little narrowminded i belive. And as the bible says "these are not cunningly devised fables or myths in which we belive".

5."Blah blah blah.

Well if the church doesn't want to be proven wrong, then why wont they give up another sample? Huh?

Because it is a security blanket for people. Religion is a security blanket. Nothing more nothing less."

The pharasis demanded proof from Jesus when he was preaching in the synagouges. He fulfilled all 66 (I think it was 66) prophecies to the letter of the scripture. This is more complicated than any "blanket".

6."The other side of the coin..For people that say God does exist, prove it. I'm not convinced that gravity can be proved!"

Belief in a God requires faith - blind faith at that. To each his/her own.

Whatever butters your toast....

Personally, I don't buy into blind faith. My humble unprovable opinion..."

Of course you are entitled to your opinion. My faith is not blind, I know it in my heart.

7."People have been "inventing" religion and religious beliefs from the dawn of time. They can't all be right can they? There are thousands of religions in the world and each person believes his or her religion is the ultimate truth. I beleve, much as Kevin said, that people create an idea of God, or Allah, or whatever to comfort them in knowing that someday they are going to die. Others need the idea of a higher power to get them through tough times. Thats fine and dandy by me, I just don't subscribe."

Religion has been twisted in many ways, people killing people and forced conversions... And you are correct, they are not "all right" there is 1 true god and only one way into heaven. And God is withe me in the good times and the bad.

8."Science > Religion. here's how it works.

all these whacked people need a 'reason' to be alive, and they can't bear to think of life as a random accident. soooo.... Jesus (who was a real guy,yes )... and all his homies came up with this story.. over time, people added to the story.. this story is called the bible..

and all these people bought into it, cause it's a good story.

think of how great the entire world would be, if there was no religion. just step back and think about it. it's scary.

you wouldn't have 1/2 of the problems we face in todays world. maybe there would be different problems, but who knows.

I'm completely comfortable knowing that when I die.. i'll die.. and that's that. no sense in wasting my time believing in something where, if i'm real real good.. and don't covet my neighbors wife.. i'll get to spend eterntity in heaven... "

Wow there are a lot of "whacked" people in this world and Im happy to be in their ranks. There are "stories"

in the bible, but the bible was inspired by god, he wrote it thru man. If there were no God in this world there would be no Law and people would be brutal to one another with no remorse for anything. God gave the laws which govern society and its people. You say that your completely comfortable with death. I say this.

If you belive in heaven and hell... do you think you will go to heaven by being a "nice guy" or a "Good person"? See, I belive that the only way to heaven is thru Jesus. If I follow the bible and Jesus' teachings the I will already be a "Good person" so... If you are right we will both go to heaven. But If Im right, we will not see each other in heaven.

Please dont misunderstand where I am coming from because I am far from perfect or without sin. I am forgiven. And I would love to share my testamony with anyone that will hear me, If I can share the joy that I have in my life and the peace that I feel then I certainly will. That doesent mean that I dont have bad days, or problems. It just means that my daily problems do not mean a hill of beans compared to the reward at the end of the race.(thou I still sometimes forget and take it for granted) But thats why god wants us to go to church and commune with one another for support and love.

And starting tonight I will start praying for all of you, whether you like it or not

sorry for the loooong post and I know my spelling sucks... ;)

[the underlørd]

it's all good man, constructive conversations are a good thing.

i totally think you're wrong.. but that's ok too. :)

[JDELUNA]

i totally think you're wrong.. but that's ok too.

That's "Free Will" and you have God to thank for that !!!! :)

[the underlørd]

That's "Free Will" and you have God to thank for that !!!!

no, i thank sAtAn..

satan bless

[Rabbit]

Science > Religion.

here's how it works.

all these whacked people need a 'reason' to be alive, and they can't bear to think of life as a random accident. soooo.... Jesus (who was a real guy,yes )... and all his homies came up with this story.. over time, people added to the story.. this story is called the bible..

and all these people bought into it, cause it's a good story.

think of how great the entire world would be, if there was no religion. just step back and think about it. it's scary.

you wouldn't have 1/2 of the problems we face in todays world. maybe there would be different problems, but who knows.

I'm completely comfortable knowing that when I die.. i'll die.. and that's that. no sense in wasting my time believing in something where, if i'm real real good.. and don't covet my neighbors wife.. i'll get to spend eterntity in heaven...

I'd like to nominate the Underlord to be the Supreme Being! (at least at VS)

He's got his act together! He knows what is real - and what is imagined!

Good job, Kevin! I'm impressed!

Nice to know there are folks here on the path to enlightenment.....

Keep up the good work, Kevin. You are much further along than you even know! :D

Edited December 8, 2005 by Rabbit

[whitev70r]

yup.. and god made Eve out of a rib. now THAT makes sense.

Yah, what is so strange about this? We are steps away from being able to clone human beings with far less than a rib, like a strand of hair, anything with DNA. We've cloned dogs, sheep and whatever. You're surprised that God can do something that humans are just beginning to learn how to do?

[Rabbit]

free from religious persecution.. exactly. now, think of the whole world free from religion, and religious persecution.. would be a better place wouldn't it. Me thinks so.

Me too...... I agree - 1000% :)

[JDELUNA]

The Bible and a God/Supernatural presence are not one and the same. The bible was written and edited by people. It includes some historical "facts" like many other very old scriptures do. It also includes some things that simply didnt happen, unless the archeological and anecdotical evidence evaporated into thin air. It does not include any "facts" about there being a God or not.

It should be noted it has been shown other "messiahs" were around in those days. Some of them walked on water, through walls, cured the sick....etc.

You need to watch Penn&Teller's episode on the bible

Try disproving to me there's an invisible monkey on my shoulder...there's as much evidence for that as there is for a God. Some things in the bible have historical relevance, yes. Others are simply bull with nothing at ALL to back it up. Not to mention many extremely cruel, uncompassionate and downright silly passages.

The Bible is as someone already pointed out is the Word of God inspired by man to write. It has many facts that science has yet to disprove, infact many of the facts in the Bible were written thousands of years before science had ever dreamed of trying to understand what and why. Here are some examples:

The Hydrologic Cycle

In a good brief description of world-wide air movements and the hydrologic water cycles of the weather, we read, "The wind blows to the south and turns to the north; round and round it goes, ever returning on its course. All streams flow into the sea, yet the sea is never full. To the place the streams come from, there they return again" (Ecclesiastes 1:6-7). In similar manner, Job 36:27-28 says, "He (God) draws up the drops of water, which distill into rain from the vapor; the clouds pour down their moisture and abundant showers fall on mankind," which is a statement from 1500 B.C. ---It wasn't until data and measurements were taken all over entire hemispheres of the globe in our modern era that such an understanding of the hydrologic cycle and world air-currents was achieved, and then once again, the Bible is confirmed as correct.

The Number of the Stars in the Universe

In the years 161-126 BC, the man who is said to have first started the study of astronomy, Hiparchus, counted the number of stars in the heavens, and put the number at 1,080. This number was considered to be fairly accurate 300 years later, when Ptolemy announced that the number was more like 1,056.

It wasn't until the invention of the telescope that people realized that the number of the stars was huge ...in the countless millions. The Bible didn't make the mistake of saying that the number was merely a few hundred or thousand, but rather, in about 600 BC, the prophet Jeremiah says the number is "countless as the stars of the sky and measureless as the sand on the seashore" (Jer. 33:22). Also, from the year 1500 BC, the same concept comes from Genesis 22:17. And this is correct, because we now estimate the number of stars to be approximately 10 to the 26th (which may also be a fair estimate of the number of the grains of sand on all the earth's sea-shores), but the actual number is "countless" for us to attempt to precisely count. ---However, God, who is infinite in knowledge, knows the exact number, as the Bible says, "He determines the number of the stars and calls them each by name" (Psalm 147:4).

As for the "Messiah" There is only ONE and that is Jesus Christ who died for ALL of us so that all of our sins can be forgiven..... even non-believers, to go to heaven all you have to do is believe in your heart that Jesus Christ died for you and that he is your personal Lord and saviour. How easy is that ??? You have nothing to lose but everything to gain especially everlasting life in heaven. Penn & Teller can fake some of the things that Jesus may have done, or explain some of them, but they can not explain all. The one thing that they can not explain is how Jesus Christ died which was witnessed by countless people, then 3 days later rose from the dead and his tomb being empty, appeared before people such as his disciples and actually had them touch and inspect his wounds on his hands, feet, and the side of his chest. Then again witnessed by countless people rise up to the sky to heaven. God Bless. :)

[djscoggins]

I think that, for me, this thread shows that this topic can be discussed with points and counter-points of why people either belive in something or choose to not belive at all. This is civilized discussion. And as I said I love the oppurtunity to share!

Please, if you have questions, opinions, or comments please post or pm me. This is not taboo, we could all learn something valuable. If there is a question that some of us cannot answer, im sure others would be happy to find it.

Edited December 6, 2005 by Raeleus

[Rabbit]

The Bible is as someone already pointed out is the Word of God inspired by man to write. It has many facts that science has yet to disprove, infact many of the facts in the Bible were written thousands of years before science had ever dreamed of trying to understand what and why. Here are some examples:

The Hydrologic Cycle

In a good brief description of world-wide air movements and the hydrologic water cycles of the weather, we read, "The wind blows to the south and turns to the north; round and round it goes, ever returning on its course. All streams flow into the sea, yet the sea is never full. To the place the streams come from, there they return again" (Ecclesiastes 1:6-7). In similar manner, Job 36:27-28 says, "He (God) draws up the drops of water, which distill into rain from the vapor; the clouds pour down their moisture and abundant showers fall on mankind," which is a statement from 1500 B.C. ---It wasn't until data and measurements were taken all over entire hemispheres of the globe in our modern era that such an understanding of the hydrologic cycle and world air-currents was achieved, and then once again, the Bible is confirmed as correct.

The Number of the Stars in the Universe

In the years 161-126 BC, the man who is said to have first started the study of astronomy, Hiparchus, counted the number of stars in the heavens, and put the number at 1,080. This number was considered to be fairly accurate 300 years later, when Ptolemy announced that the number was more like 1,056.

It wasn't until the invention of the telescope that people realized that the number of the stars was huge ...in the countless millions. The Bible didn't make the mistake of saying that the number was merely a few hundred or thousand, but rather, in about 600 BC, the prophet Jeremiah says the number is "countless as the stars of the sky and measureless as the sand on the seashore" (Jer. 33:22). Also, from the year 1500 BC, the same concept comes from Genesis 22:17. And this is correct, because we now estimate the number of stars to be approximately 10 to the 26th (which may also be a fair estimate of the number of the grains of sand on all the earth's sea-shores), but the actual number is "countless" for us to attempt to precisely count. ---However, God, who is infinite in knowledge, knows the exact number, as the Bible says, "He determines the number of the stars and calls them each by name" (Psalm 147:4).

As for the "Messiah" There is only ONE and that is Jesus Christ who died for ALL of us so that all of our sins can be forgiven..... even non-believers, to go to heaven all you have to do is believe in your heart that Jesus Christ died for you and that he is your personal Lord and saviour. How easy is that ??? You have nothing to lose but everything to gain especially everlasting life in heaven. Penn & Teller can fake some of the things that Jesus may have done, or explain some of them, but they can not explain all. The one thing that they can not explain is how Jesus Christ died which was witnessed by countless people, then 3 days later rose from the dead and his tomb being empty, appeared before people such as his disciples and actually had them touch and inspect his wounds on his hands, feet, and the side of his chest. Then again witnessed by countless people rise up to the sky to heaven. God Bless.

Without this having taken place, there would be no Christianity or Christian religion. The death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus is the core of Christianity.

Cheers!

[TheDude]

The Answer to All your religoius questions

The site above will provide a new perspective on this controversial issue.

And in the words of Lil' John "YEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAHHHHHH"

[Volvokiller]

As for the "Messiah" There is only ONE and that is Jesus Christ who died for ALL of us so that all of our sins can be forgiven..... even non-believers, to go to heaven all you have to do is believe in your heart that Jesus Christ died for you and that he is your personal Lord and saviour. How easy is that ??? You have nothing to lose but everything to gain especially everlasting life in heaven. Penn & Teller can fake some of the things that Jesus may have done, or explain some of them, but they can not explain all. The one thing that they can not explain is how Jesus Christ died which was witnessed by countless people, then 3 days later rose from the dead and his tomb being empty, appeared before people such as his disciples and actually had them touch and inspect his wounds on his hands, feet, and the side of his chest. Then again witnessed by countless people rise up to the sky to heaven. God Bless.

If you are going to claim broad generalizations that the bible "sort of" got right as proof that it is inspired truth by God, then you also need to look at the historical context that the bible was created in. You are aware that the modern bible as we know it was comprised about 300 years after Christs death. Think about that, THREE HUNDRED YEARS. Its been argued that the development of the Christ Resurrection story was created to fuel persuasion to the Christian Faith around the same time that the Church had enormous oppurtunity to grab political power in the Roman Empire. As it turns out, this is exactly what historically happened. Around the time that the bible came to be, the Church grew powerful both in numbers and in political influence. Who's to say that political influence didn't sculpt the stories in the bible to their favor. Think anyone was alive 300 years later to refute or confirm the stories?

[Rabbit]

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Edited December 8, 2005 by Rabbit