Is There A God Or Supreme Being?

[dancetheman]

I'm not sure we are looking at the same point. I'm not saying Christians today should be condemned becasue the Isrealites held slaves. I agree that you cannot hold people acountable today for the actions of their forefathers. What I am saying/trying to say is that since the actions of the ancestoral Isrealites were supposedly endorsed by God - ie written in the Bible, it stands to reason that either God was wrong or he changeds his mind based on the custom of the time - hardly Godlike.

Not until after I posted. So let me see if I get what you are saying. God allows man free will. Original sin, Adam and Eve, etc. So since the Isrealites wanted to enslave neighboring people and have a King, God says ok, but doesn't agree with it.

Now it seems to me reading the passages about having slaves that if this is the inspired word of God then he IS endorsing the use of slaves, even outlining the guidelines for which one can obtain and keep them. Isn't it more likely that man created this wording so that they seemed just in their actions?

I'm tiring of this conversation, not becasue I feel I am right and you are wrong just that I think much gets lost in the translation from ideas to words to keyboard. There isn't much you can say that will make me believe that the Bible is the inspired word of God as opposed to a book created by Man to guide early Jews in their beliefs. The fact that nearly every major religion has some version of a book inspired by Divinity leads me to conclude that it is part of the religious formula.

fair enough, we post here uber quickly

well if the Bible isn't inspired by God then there really is no Christianity which is what you also stand for

i'm just trying to show you that the way it is worded implies that God didn't endorse slaves neither did He not allow it

like smoking, we know it causes cancer and kills but it's still allowed by the goverment

same concept and i guess it's time to let this topic rest since you tire of it and it's not going anywhere...much like this thread haha

and i agree with v70r, God will either exist or not regardless of this thread

[djscoggins]

I'm tiring of this conversation, not becasue I feel I am right and you are wrong just that I think much gets lost in the translation from ideas to words to keyboard. There isn't much you can say that will make me believe that the Bible is the inspired word of God as opposed to a book created by Man to guide early Jews in their beliefs. The fact that nearly every major religion has some version of a book inspired by Divinity leads me to conclude that it is part of the religious formula.

"There isn't much you can say that will make me believe that the Bible is the inspired word of God"

Does this mean if we say the right thing then you will believe? Jesus refused to prove himself to the Pharasies when they demanded for him to prove he was the messiah. And somehow they failed to see all the people he healed and ministered too. Until it was too late. When jesus died on the cross the veil was torn into and It was said "Truely this was the Son of God". I beg you not to wait, dont put this off... at least open your mind and read some scripture and let him talk to you. One day you and I will have to give account for all of our time on this earth. You name will only appear in the book of life if you put your faith in Jesus. Or you will suffer eternity seperated from him.

"The fact that nearly every major religion has some version of a book inspired by Divinity leads me to conclude that it is part of the religious formula."

We have the holy bible as an "instruction manual" of sorts... I believe that the bible is here so we have it to refer too in all of our affairs. There is no formula... God gave us the bible so that his word is written, and unchanged(I believe), not just remembered. I could see the bible being lost in translation or changing meaning or changing all together if man passed it down generation to generation thru spoken word. Like playing "Operator" the original meaning or word isnt always the same at the end of the line.

[TheDude]

I will once again answer all of your questions. Just go to this website. All of this has been discussed and they have come up with a rather interesting answer. An answer i agree with.

The answer to all of your religious questions, now stop arguing, this site proves eveything

Thank you very much

:rolleyes:

[dancetheman]

I will once again answer all of your questions. Just go to this website. All of this has been discussed and they have come up with a rather interesting answer. An answer i agree with.

The answer to all of your religious questions, now stop arguing, this site proves eveything

Thank you very much

i tried emailing them for some of their scientific sources and other parts of evidence that they had but i got no reply...anyone else have the same problem :P

Edited December 15, 2005 by dancetheman

[JCviggen]

...so that his word is written, and unchanged(I believe), not just remembered.

Wow. Believing in God is one thing, but to believe the Bible is unchanged or an accurate descendant from the "original" bible(s) is just plain ignorant. The bible has changed hugely over centuries, hell there even used to be 2 "Gods" which were condensed into one.

Read the article I linked a page or more back.

[gdizzle]

Wow. Believing in God is one thing, but to believe the Bible is unchanged or an accurate descendant from the "original" bible(s) is just plain ignorant. The bible has changed hugely over centuries, hell there even used to be 2 "Gods" which were condensed into one.

Read the article I linked a page or more back.

I'd say writing an internet article off as fact is pretty ignorant. ;)

[Volvokiller]

"There isn't much you can say that will make me believe that the Bible is the inspired word of God"

Does this mean if we say the right thing then you will believe? Jesus refused to prove himself to the Pharasies when they demanded for him to prove he was the messiah. And somehow they failed to see all the people he healed and ministered too. Until it was too late. When jesus died on the cross the veil was torn into and It was said "Truely this was the Son of God". I beg you not to wait, dont put this off... at least open your mind and read some scripture and let him talk to you. One day you and I will have to give account for all of our time on this earth. You name will only appear in the book of life if you put your faith in Jesus. Or you will suffer eternity seperated from him.

"The fact that nearly every major religion has some version of a book inspired by Divinity leads me to conclude that it is part of the religious formula."

We have the holy bible as an "instruction manual" of sorts... I believe that the bible is here so we have it to refer too in all of our affairs. There is no formula... God gave us the bible so that his word is written, and unchanged(I believe), not just remembered. I could see the bible being lost in translation or changing meaning or changing all together if man passed it down generation to generation thru spoken word. Like playing "Operator" the original meaning or word isnt always the same at the end of the line.

I was born into a Catholic family. I went to Catholic elementary school, high school, and got a scholarship to a Catholic university. I've taken every religion class there is from 1st grade to advanced theology. I went to church every Sunday for the first 20 years of my life. I've read or heard nearly every passage in the bible. Perhaps I misspoke before, there ISN'T anything you can tell me right now to change my belief that God is a human fabricatation, that the Bible was written by man to use to his historical advantage, and that although Jesus was a historical person, he is not the Son of God. I am comfortable in the life I have lead so far that I will be accountable for all of my actions, seperate from my beliefs when "judgement day" comes.

When I speak of the religious formula I am taking a broad look at all religions that exist in the world. Most have the same characteristics that comprise the formula. One is having an almighty power, be it singular or plural. Another is the belief that this higher power spawned the human race. A third is the existance of writings supposedly from this higher power that instruct humans how to live, and gives a history of their ancestors.

You refererance the game Operator in relation to how the Bible wasn't constructed. Some reasearch shows that infact, much of the old testament was recorded through spoken word for many years. Also, the New Testament was assembled three hundred years after the death of Christ. Thats like you gathering writngs and telling the story of Joe the Pilgrim tomorrow. I'm telling you, if a concerted effort was made by our government today to turn Benjamin Franklin into a divine figure in 2000 years it would be hard to dispute.

[gdizzle]

There is a major difference between the Catholic Church and a Christian Church. The doctorine of the catholic church is severely flawed. Pergatory, confession are just two of the many things that don't hold true to the original greek translations of the bible. The Catholic Church IMO is a complete mess and ruined by the greed of man.

[Volvokiller]

The Catholic Church IMO is a complete mess and ruined by the greed of man.

You'll find no argument with me there. However the basic beleif strucuture amongst all Christian faiths is pretty consistant.

[JCviggen]

I'd say writing an internet article off as fact is pretty ignorant.

Ho ho ho, I'm not writing the article itself off as fact. You can check the sources used + check alternate ones, plenty available. If you are going to go against any serious historian and go on believing in the bible in such a way then NO amount of evidence will ever convince you, and you would have made a good believer of the flat earth theory.

[whitev70r]

Wow. Believing in God is one thing, but to believe the Bible is unchanged or an accurate descendant from the "original" bible(s) is just plain ignorant. The bible has changed hugely over centuries, hell there even used to be 2 "Gods" which were condensed into one.

On the issue of the accuracy or reliability of the Bible, I think we need to clarify a few misunderstandings.

1. The Bible that we have today is NOT a translation of a translation of a translation. The English Bibles that we have today are translated from the original Hebrew and Greek manuscripts from scholars who study the original languages. It goes back to the most earliest original source.

2. When it comes to accuracy, there are thousands of copies of manuscripts for the Old Testament and the New Testament, far more than any other classical text, like Homer, Aristotle, Plato, texts which we do not question the authenticity, accuracy or reliability of, with far less manuscript evidence.

3. In 1947, there was the discovery of the famous Dead Sea Scrolls which were fragments of the Old Testament dated approx 150 BC. Before 1947, the earliest manuscripts that historians had were from 900 A.D. When historians compared the two, they were essentially the same. What this discovery showed was that the translations from 150 BC to 900 AD were very accurate. And if manuscripts separated by about 1000 years were essentially the same, we can safely conclude that the transmission of the Old Testament indeed is very accurate.

In conclusion, you can disagree with what the Bible says, and you are free to do that, but I think the evidence will suggest that the translation of the Bible from the manuscripts that we have is very accurate. So, let’s talk about what the Bible says. Who wants to go first?

[whitev70r]

When I speak of the religious formula I am taking a broad look at all religions that exist in the world. Most have the same characteristics that comprise the formula. One is having an almighty power, be it singular or plural. Another is the belief that this higher power spawned the human race. A third is the existance of writings supposedly from this higher power that instruct humans how to live, and gives a history of their ancestors.

The above is a beginning point but I think it is just that, the beginning or a very surface analysis of religions of the world. Apart from the above, there are many more questions that comprise the 'formula' or structure of religion. Questions like: the question of good and evil, life after death, meaning of life, how to treat fellow humanity, morality, answer to the question of suffering, what is the way to God, just to name a few more. And when you take a careful look, you find that there are MAJOR differences. What is wrong with a discipline that attempts to formulate answers to these questions? We spend far more time on less important things. I am very interested and open as to what other religions or worldviews (incl atheists) offer in terms of answers to these questions. For thousands and thousands of years, humanity have asked these meaningful questions, I suggest to you that this is one of the first generations (because of the overemphasis on the individual - me, myself and I) that doesn't ask good questions like these. And I for one, appreciate the fact that we can discuss this amicably. That's part of the freedom that we have, there are many who don't have this privilege.

Edited December 15, 2005 by whitev70r

[djscoggins]

I for one, appreciate the fact that we can discuss this amicably. That's part of the freedom that we have, there are many who don't have this privilege.

Agreed. I have to be honest, I thought this discussion was going to be... well not so pretty. But I want you all to know that I appreciate the respect that is being shown between the different members. Topics like this show that we truly have intelligent and insightful people in this forum(Believers and non-believers).

Aside from my horrible spelling that is... :P

[atbspinner]

i tried emailing them for some of their scientific sources and other parts of evidence that they had but i got no reply...anyone else have the same problem

Yeah, very insightful link. Great way for kuzia60 to defend his point of view. :lol:

Edited December 16, 2005 by atbspinner

[robert213]

http://www.400monkeys.com/God/index.html

THE OFFICIAL GOD FAQ

Question: “Is there a God?”

Answer: “No.”

In the quite unlikely event that you were to discover any omissions or inaccuracies on this page, they may be reported to the international headquarters of The Official God FAQ, at aod@400monkeys.com, where they will be thoroughly investigated, submitted to rigorous scientific testing and, if substantiated, included in a subsequent update. Thank you.

That's pretty funny. He MUST be in denial.

01) On the back of a ONE, FIVE, TWENTY, and FIFTY dollar bills -- "In God We Trust"

02) Today is Fri, Dec 16th 2005 -- In the year of our LORD

03) Archaeological remains of Noah's Ark

http://www.wyattmuseum.com/

http://www.tentmaker.org/WAR/HasNoahsArkBeenFound1.html

http://www.noahsarksearch.com/ronwyatt.htm

http://www.specialtyinterests.net/the_rema..._noahs_ark.html

Even well-known atheist, Antony Flew, one of the world's leading philosophers,

has changed his view about the existance God.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2005/004/29.80.html

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