Is There A God Or Supreme Being?

[whitev70r]

Ive gota million things to say on this topic, but since i didnt get involved when it first started, ill stay out of it.

Ditto ... bring it on ;)

[Trunks850R]

okay you asked for it. well let me say that i was raised in going to church every sunday for the first 20 years of my life, didnt go for about 5 years, then after my first child was born i felt like i would be doing hima injustice by not taking him to church the way my parents did. let me start by saying the belief in a supreme god has been provin to be a healty aspect in anyones life. this is speaking of people i know who have been in 12 step programs for drug and alcohol abuse that have been told to let a higher power take over in their lives. as we all know most people are going to turn their lives over to god, jesus christ and the holy ghost, but i acually knew a guy whos "higher power" was 3 rocks he took out of the driveway. another guy i knew, his ash tray was his holy power. what im getting at is when a human being breaks down and admits that he is not the greastest thing in the universe, it humbles him. that takes me to my theroy on pride. pride has destroyed nations of people, includiing the romans and the people that lived in south america in the late BC and early AD times. the biggest thing i want to get across is faith. since a higher power is something we cannot see or touch it takes faith to know that he is there. think about it, im a married man and have been with my wife for almost 7 years, i know that she has been faithful to me because i have faith in her. i know she loves me and would not do anything behind my back. i cant say i know this because i see it, because i am at work for almost 12 hours a day, but my FAITH in my wife keeps me at peace. a person has to have faith in something, weather it be that his wife doesnt run around on him, or taht the company you work for doesnt close down on you overnight(i had that happen to me in high school) what im tryin to get across is that even if youdont belive in god, its a proven fact that the belief of a higher power has been proven healthy and effective in human beings. yes thier are religions that say their way is the only way, and i have to say that i do belive that there is one religion that has a upper hand in the whole christianity thing, but i do belive that all good people will go to a good place in the afterlife.

if i remember correctly, i read someone say, if your right then i lost a lifetime, if your wrong you lost eternity. i firmly belive that there is more to this life than birth and death. life is short.

oh yeah i typed this pretty fast, so dont mind my bad spelling

[JCviggen]

Interesting story m8

Of course it appears to me that the bottom line of your story is people themselves need things to believe/have faith in, and I agree. Of course this whole belief in a higher power is also something that it needed by some people, and not by others, and those "others" are not off any worse because of it at all. It all depends on your personal needs. And when you come as far as that, take into account there is no direct or indirect evidence of a higher power....just people needing one.....well...you can see where i'm going with this

Either way, its definitely true humans should be humble...we are but a speck of dust in the Universe, though a precious speck for sure. One of the things I regret the most personally is that I will never have the brain power to understand, or imagine, how enormeous the universe really is....with billions and billions of stars and places we cant and may never be able to explore. We dont have any answer to the question "why" but there very well may be no answer to that question. I dont want to go on anecdotes or other people's belief to fill in any blanks just for peace of mind.

[shaun]

Interesting story m8

Of course it appears to me that the bottom line of your story is people themselves need things to believe/have faith in, and I agree. Of course this whole belief in a higher power is also something that it needed by some people, and not by others, and those "others" are not off any worse because of it at all. It all depends on your personal needs. And when you come as far as that, take into account there is no direct or indirect evidence of a higher power....just people needing one.....well...you can see where i'm going with this

Either way, its definitely true humans should be humble...we are but a speck of dust in the Universe, though a precious speck for sure. One of the things I regret the most personally is that I will never have the brain power to understand, or imagine, how enormeous the universe really is....with billions and billions of stars and places we cant and may never be able to explore. We dont have any answer to the question "why" but there very well may be no answer to that question. I dont want to go on anecdotes or other people's belief to fill in any blanks just for peace of mind.

this is exacly why I believe everthing W does and says. He undestands the universe and everything that is good fom me, I do not need to worry anymore! W has it covered!

[TheDude]

If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him.

Voltaire

[the underlørd]

If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him.

Voltaire

If god really existed, it woud necessary to abolish him.

- KMFDM.

[whitev70r]

If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him.

Voltaire

Thankfully he does so we don't have to.

If god really existed, it woud necessary to abolish him.

- KMFDM.

If he could really be abolished by you, KMFDM or whoever ... then he wouldn't be god now would he?

Edited December 23, 2005 by whitev70r

[TheDude]

If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him.

Voltaire

Thankfully he does so we don't have to.

If he could really be abolished by you, KMFDM or whoever ... then he wouldn't be god now would he?

You need to think about that quote a little more..

[JCviggen]

You need to think about that quote a little more..

Yeah...but its not possible. Anyone who really believes (in anything) cant possibly think rationally or logically on the subject, negating any point of reasonable arguments.

[djscoggins]

1."Of course it appears to me that the bottom line of your story is people themselves need things to believe/have faith in, and I agree. Of course this whole belief in a higher power is also something that it needed by some people, and not by others, and those "others" are not off any worse because of it at all. It all depends on your personal needs. And when you come as far as that, take into account there is no direct or indirect evidence of a higher power....just people needing one.....well...you can see where i'm going with this"

...yet another refrenece to people being "weak". Everyone, at some point or another in their lives will realize that they are "broken" or have a fault. There will be a point in which one cannot take care of a problem or situation. Or an event that is simply to much to bear on their own. Some people will seek council in friends, family, shrinks, and some will seek the council of god. The only one who can give closeure(spelling?) and the peace that one seeks, is Jesus. Man cannot forgive me of my sins. My transgressions, or my wrongs. Plain and simple. You will be in need one day, and after you have exhausted all of your resources and still have not found peace and the love you will seek, He will be there with open arms. But if you tarry too long and he returns before you reconcile... then it will be too late. I say dont waste this time. Its like finding a lost parent near the end of their life and having only a few years with them instead of the lifetime you could have shared.

2."If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him."

Voltaire

This is a funny quote, and it is flawed.If he did not exist then how would we know we need him? You cannot create that which is already there. He is Alpha and Omega. You were created by him and he knew you before there was time. He knew your name and what color your eyes would be. I do not have my faith because I was told to. I believe because I have felt his presence in my life and I see his works in the lives of others. I know He has a place for me. He has a place for all of us. All we have to do is swallow our sinful pride and humble ourselves and ask for forgiveness, and repent. "Ask and ye shall recieve" "Knock and the door shall be opened"

3."If god really existed, it woud necessary to abolish him."

- KMFDM.

He does. Good luck.

4.

You need to think about that quote a little more..

"Yeah...but its not possible. Anyone who really believes (in anything) cant possibly think rationally or logically on the subject, negating any point of reasonable arguments."

I have no problem thinking... rationally, logically or otherwise. Its just that this is not a normal debate.

Its like someone trying to share gravity with you. I cant literally show you gravity to you. But I can demonstrate its effects.

[JCviggen]

Ya know...you're free to believe whatever you like and everyone should respect that Just dont try to act like you're right and we're wrong because fact of the matter is...you have absolutely nothing to base yourself on.

Earlier I was reading how "spiritual" feelings can be perfectly recreated in the lab...people would actually feel a presence near them when all what was being done to them was some electrical signals fed onto their head, heck some people cried and called it a beautiful experience even though they knew they were in a lab.

There is nothing, absolutely nothing at all that even points into a direction of there being a higher something. And in the end the only argument you can have is "well I know there is". Stay with what makes you happy, by all means...life's too short to not live it in the way you like. Just dont come off with the whole i'm right and you're wrong attitude in this matter.

I cant literally show you gravity to you. But I can demonstrate its effects.

You cant demonstrate God in any way or form unless you consider fantasy a demonstration. Note however I am not saying God cannot possibly exist.

Gravity is a defined force, one which is even mathematically consistent. You're comparing this to what again?

I'd like to compare gravity to evolution, while we're at it. Some extremists like to point out evolution is a theory. Well its also a fact much like gravity is. To quote someone (I forgot who) "when Einstein's theory of relativity replaced Newton's theory of gravity, apples did not suspend themselves in mid-air pending the outcome"

[whitev70r]

Yeah...but its not possible. Anyone who really believes (in anything) cant possibly think rationally or logically on the subject, negating any point of reasonable arguments.

That's a good one. Now who is acting as if he is right and those who believe differently are wrong. I will agree wholeheartedly with one statement of yours: ' ... you're free to believe whatever you like and everyone should respect that' . I think some of us were having a cordial discussion until you came along and interjected with your 'wisdom'.

Getting back to Voltaire, this is what I have found. He was a humanist, satirist. Although he did not believe in God, he did believe from a social point of view that religion should be accepted. If there is anything else that might shed light to his quote, please help us to understand. In the meantime, here are a couple more quotes from Voltaire for you to 'think' about:

Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd

A witty saying proves nothing

[djscoggins]

"Ya know...you're free to believe whatever you like and everyone should respect that Just dont try to act like you're right and we're wrong because fact of the matter is...you have absolutely nothing to base yourself on."

Im not "trying to act like I'm right". I am simply sharing Gods love with anyone who has ears. Believe or not, it's your decision, thats why you have free will. And then you talk about fact on my basis for belief... on whos authority do you command such knowledge? The proof is in the pudding, so to speak. Find a believer, not just a christian, and ask them what God has done in their life.

"Earlier I was reading how "spiritual" feelings can be perfectly recreated in the lab...people would actually feel a presence near them when all what was being done to them was some electrical signals fed onto their head, heck some people cried and called it a beautiful experience even though they knew they were in a lab."

Ask me how many times I have needed the aid of a "lab" to feel Gods presence... Go ahead ask me...

God said "Where two or more are gathered in my name I am in their midst". And the holy spirit dwells within me.

"There is nothing, absolutely nothing at all that even points into a direction of there being a higher something."

You think that all of creation was an "Accident"? As stated before I cannot believe that all life on earth is merely the evolution of a lucky cell.

"And in the end the only argument you can have is "well I know there is". Stay with what makes you happy, by all means...life's too short to not live it in the way you like. Just dont come off with the whole i'm right and you're wrong attitude in this matter."

Yes life is too short, that is why I share this with people. And this isn't about my attitude, this is Gods word and his covenant.

"You cant demonstrate God in any way or form unless you consider fantasy a demonstration. Note however I am not saying God cannot possibly exist."

You require proof to believe but you will not deny his existance. Sir even Lucifer himself believes in christ. Do you think that when jesus returns he will symphathize with your "I never said I didn't believe, doesn't that count for somethin'?" approach? Im afraid that will not suffice.

"Gravity is a defined force, one which is even mathematically consistent. You're comparing this to what again?"

In relation to my faith in the unseen. Can you calculate the wind also?

"I'd like to compare gravity to evolution, while we're at it. Some extremists like to point out evolution is a theory. Well its also a fact much like gravity is. To quote someone (I forgot who) "when Einstein's theory of relativity replaced Newton's theory of gravity, apples did not suspend themselves in mid-air pending the outcome"

Here you state that evolution is "fact"... how do you know this? where you there when it happened? Even Einstein believed in a supernatural force, or being.

[atbspinner]

I'd like to compare gravity to evolution, while we're at it. Some extremists like to point out evolution is a theory. Well its also a fact much like gravity is.

Extremists?

Evolution = fact?

Prove it!

Oh yeah, I didn't think so.

Ya know...you're free to believe whatever you like and everyone should respect that Just dont try to act like you're right and we're wrong because fact of the matter is...you have absolutely nothing to base yourself on.

Ditto!!

Bottom line = Everyone has to put their faith in something.

Some will choose wisely and others will not.

The second you die you will find out if you made the right choice.

[JCviggen]

The proof is in the pudding, so to speak. Find a believer, not just a christian, and ask them what God has done in their life.

Believers' lives are not any diffirent from those of non believers. You can credit a whole bunch of things to an invisible force. If I flip a coin and it lands where i guessed it would I can credit this to God. Or I could realise there was a 1 in 2 chance. Your pick.

Ask me how many times I have needed the aid of a "lab" to feel Gods presence... Go ahead ask me...

God said "Where two or more are gathered in my name I am in their midst". And the holy spirit dwells within me.

The point of the experiment was to determine that spiritual feelings are in fact physical in nature, and can be created on demand as much as they can create themself It does not need any outside force to trigger them.

You think that all of creation was an "Accident"? As stated before I cannot believe that all life on earth is merely the evolution of a lucky cell.

Oh my god (pun intended!)...are you serious? You cannot b serious.

We covered this. You cannot believe all life on earth came about on its own. Fair enough. What do you actually know about the science involved? Darn little is my guess. This statement is covered here. Read it and please give it your attention. http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/chance/chance.html

Who are you (or anyone of us) to decide something happened either by chance or by act of god period? Because humanity doesnt have all the answers doesnt mean you need to invent them. And yes, invent is the right word because it holds as much water so say we were created by creatures from an alien universe. Same amount of evidence. Look at animals. They have an extremely limited understanding of their surroundings. We humans are blessed with a huge amount of knowledge relative to animals, yet we only have a few pieces of the puzzle determined for sure. The fact that our understanding is limited should not have any relation to the existance of a supernatural power! It is in fact quite irrelevant to draw "conclusions" because of it. Now please read the article.

You require proof to believe but you will not deny his existance. Sir even Lucifer himself believes in christ. Do you think that when jesus returns he will symphathize with your "I never said I didn't believe, doesn't that count for somethin'?" approach? Im afraid that will not suffice.

I'm sorry are you serious? Lucifer? Was he on Jay Leno's show recently or something?

In relation to my faith in the unseen. Can you calculate the wind also?

Yes, yes we can....were you serious?

Here you state that evolution is "fact"... how do you know this? where you there when it happened? Even Einstein believed in a supernatural force, or being.

There is the theory of evolution, and there are facts of evolution. Evolution has been recreated in controlled experiments and observed in nature. Furtermore, "facts" are things which are determined on grounds of evidence, calculation and observation. None of which are found in your claims by the way. You also seem to be a little behind in knowing what has been established and what not, if I can be so free to point this out...

Prove it!

Oh yeah, I didn't think so.

Stop thinking so narrowly and read this http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-miscon...ons.html#chance

Evolution is a word that involves more than the Darn theory first formulated by Darwin.