Is There A God Or Supreme Being?

[merlin390]

Didn't Einstein say the more he studied the universe the more he believed in God?

[WhiteT5]

Didn't Einstein say the more he studied the universe the more he believed in God?

He did say something to that extent due to the fact that all he saw in science was so perfect, he refused to believe that a god was just "rolling dice" so to speak. Keep in mind though that Einstein was not Christian. He was in fact rather annoyed with organized and conventional religion, saying "Few are those who see with their own eyes and feel with their own hearts." For this reason, he strayed from organized religion, but certainly did not revert to the other end of the scale, atheism. He began to take the two (personal spirituality and science) hand in hand in his later days. He is quoted as saying, "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

I too feel that the masses participating in organized religion (i.e. going to church, practicing orthodox-like behaviors) are being led blindly. This does not make me an atheist though; far from it. Einstein was right in saying that things are far too perfect. I'm not a gambling man, but the chance of the world today being coincidence is faaarr from good odds. It didn't just all fall into place. I think that science only further verifies the existence of a supreme being. I mean, really, the more I learn, the more I study in all fields, the more beauty I see in the world around us, the more I feel that my beliefs are confirmed.

[JDELUNA]

The "CHURCH" gave scientists what they say was the fabric that Jesus was wrapped in.

The scientists dated it, and found it was only 800 some yrs. old.

When scientists asked for more of the fabric, the "CHURCH" refused.

If they want people to believe he is real, then why not proof it with this.

Because they can't. It is FAKE, not real.

However the DEAD SEA SCROLLS are a few thousand yrs. old.

You also have to remember that when the carbon dating that was done on the Shroud of Turin that it was done If I Recall Correctly in 1988, so technology has progressed much since then. Also there are some new scientists that now say that the fire that the Shroud was in back in the Middle Ages (Which this is a FACT) could have altered some of the material that was tested back in 1988 to give it a carbon dating that dated the Shroud back to the Middle Ages. Some of the pollen that they did find on the Shroud they have analyzed and it dates back to the time of Jesus Christ.

Also as someone has mentioned, some of the things that the Bible has said science has now proven to be a fact. Example: Jesus once healed a blind man at a pool, after that the blind man was able to see. Recently archeologists have found this pool in Jerusalem.

The Bible says that God created the universe in 6 Days and rested on the 7th. As humans we always think of days in the current length that we now know of it, but one has to remember that the current length of the DAY has not always been approx. 24 hours as it is now. Scientists have said that the Earth's rotation is slowing down and that early in the Earth's history that one day was only equivalent to about 9 hours. Back to the Bible, who is to say that the days that the Bible is talking about is measured in Earth days ?? On other planets, one of their days is equivalent to months or years of our Earth days, so what if there is a place where 1 day is equivalent to 1 Billion Earth years ???

Anyone here familiar with Time ?? If so then you now that time is not constant to everywhere and only to the observer. Case and point. The stronger the gravity field the more slower time will be. Many many years ago, they took at 2 atomic clocks and sycncronized both of them. They put one on the ground and flew one on a plane so many miles in the air for approx. 24 hours. Then they landed the plane and compared the 2 atomic clocks. You would think they would be in sync, but they were not, the one that was on the plane was just a tad bit slower because gravity higher up from the ground is stronger. Another example: if you had a twin and one of you stayed on Earth and the other went to stand at the event horizon of black hole, yet both of you could see each other. The twin on the Earth looking at the other twin at the black hole will see to him that time on Earth looks to be going normally, yet lookingat his twin at the black hole he would see to be standing still in time, yet the twin at the black hole will think time is moving normally at his end, yet he will see his twin brother on Earth rapidly aging and eventually die. The longer he is at the black hole the more time would have passed on Earth. The same thing with approaching the speed of light, but that is another story

SO with all of these wonderful scientific wonders to think that all of this was created by accident or by random I think is foolish. I believe there is a God, infact I know there is a God. So I close this now by saying God Bless :)

[V Tuning 850]

Blah blah blah.

Well if the church doesn't want to be proven wrong, then why wont they give up another sample? Huh?

Because it is a security blanket for people. Religion is a security blanket. Nothing more nothing less.

Go ahead a believe, doesn't bother me. Just don't get me to believe it to.

Edited December 5, 2005 by V Tuning 850

[JHEIII874T5M]

Blah blah blah.

Go ahead a believe, doesn't bother me. Just don't get me to believe it to.

no one asked you to... you can unravel your panties now

We will all believe what we please, just as some of us our "democrats", others "republicans", some of us drive LPT's... others HPT's... we're all individuals.

Personally, I feel so long as someone has a high standard of morals and is honest, they're ok in my book. :)

Edited December 5, 2005 by JHEIII874T5M

[dancetheman]

what's all this about religion haha, i thought this was about whether or not you believed in God

and besides, you can never prove or disprove that there is a God, if you could, you won't have to believe...he'd either be real and who he says he is or not exist at all

[whitev70r]

"religion is a crutch for weak people."

I'm going with Kevin on this one.

This argument would be like saying that those who post or participate on Volvospeed forum are weak volvo owners, presumably because they seek other people's advice, share their thoughts, spend lots of $$ on mods, make some friends, get together for meets, spend their time (some even volunteer), etc.

Why is organized religion a crutch if people of similar faith want to learn from each other, share their thoughts, make some friends, get together, etc.?

WEAK argument !

[JHEIII874T5M]

This argument would be like saying that those who post or participate on Volvospeed forum are weak volvo owners, presumably because they seek other people's advice, share their thoughts, spend lots of $$ on mods, make some friends, get together for meets, spend their time (some even volunteer), etc.

Why is organized religion a crutch if people of similar faith want to learn from each other, share their thoughts, make some friends, get together, etc.?

WEAK argument !

we don't sacrifice volvos to make our cars faster :rolleyes:

[whitev70r]

we don't sacrifice volvos to make our cars faster

But so many of us sacrifice almost everything else to make her go faster ... so, our Volvos are our gods? Welcome to the First Church of Volvo :D

[atbspinner]

what's all this about religion haha, i thought this was about whether or not you believed in God

and besides, you can never prove or disprove that there is a God, if you could, you won't have to believe...he'd either be real and who he says he is or not exist at all

Prove there is a God? The alternative is too believe we evolved from a single cell that came from who knows where after a huge explosion that no one can explain. Whoever believes that "theory" has far

more faith than I will ever have.

[JDELUNA]

For people that say God does not exists, prove it. :o

[Rabbit]

For people that say God does not exists, prove it.

The other side of the coin..

For people that say God does exist, prove it. I'm not convinced that gravity can be proved!

Belief in a God requires faith - blind faith at that.

To each his/her own.

Whatever butters your toast....

Personally, I don't buy into blind faith. My humble unprovable opinion...

Cheers! :)

[dancetheman]

The other side of the coin..

For people that say God does exist, prove it. I'm not convinced that gravity can be proved!

Belief in a God requires faith - blind faith at that.

To each his/her own.

Whatever butters your toast....

Personally, I don't buy into blind faith. My humble unprovable opinion...

Cheers!

i think we should close the thread at that ^^^

[whitev70r]

Belief in a God requires faith - blind faith at that.

Personally, I don't buy into blind faith. My humble unprovable opinion...

Cheers!

I've also heard this 'blind faith' cliche thrown around alot.

Do you believe that Mars is real? Have you ever seen it with your own eyes? Have you ever touched it, or been there? We believe that Mars exist because based on the amount of evidence (eg. gravity that affect earth's orbit and a whole other pile of evidence) we think it is a safe conclusion that Mars exist vs. the idea that Mars does not exist.

That's all people of faith are saying, based on what we have (archeological, historical, quantum physics (Einstein), human behaviour, personal experiences), we lean on the side that it is more plausible to believe that there is a supreme being than not. Let's just say that there are scholarly, educated people who are people of faith, not that this alone makes faith true or not, all this illustrate is that the phrase: 'blind faith' is a cliche and not a well thought out argument.

You cannot dismss all people's spiritual/religious belief to this dumb cliche!

Now we can close the thread if you want :D

[Volvokiller]

I'm with JC.

Viggen than is. Not the other guy.

Historically, many things can be proven. Jesus was a real person, the places he went were real, the people he knew were real. To go from there to "The Son of God" is a HUGE leap as far as I'm convinced. I was raised Catholic, attended Catholic schools and universities and all I've learned has lead me away from religion.

People have been "inventing" religion and religious beliefs from the dawn of time. They can't all be right can they? There are thousands of religions in the world and each person believes his or her religion is the ultimate truth. I beleve, much as Kevin said, that people create an idea of God, or Allah, or whatever to comfort them in knowing that someday they are going to die. Others need the idea of a higher power to get them through tough times. Thats fine and dandy by me, I just don't subscribe.

My biggest problem with SOME religious people is their belief that you must believe in God to be a good person. I take large offense with this outlook. I can live a good life independent of belief in God, and my not believing in whatever it is that you do does not make me any less of a person. I especially hate when social and politcal issues become clouded with religious beliefs. I firmly believe in separation of church and state, and the right to be free from imposed religious beliefs.