Qbm Control Arm Bushings

[JHEIII874T5M]

I found nothing about diagnosing failed bushings, nor is there anything about how many miles people drive on the stock ones before failure.

The amount of miles people drive on the stock ones is like asking everyone here how long their transmission has lasted. It all depends on driving style, road condition, etc. Furthermore, it's not really "obvious" if/when they go bad, as many may not have noticed, howeverly merely noticed a loss in steering feel.

[Slater]

Nope. Untrue.

I read the thread originally before posting, and now you just made me read it all again. My questions have not been answered here. I found nothing about diagnosing failed bushings, nor is there anything about how many miles people drive on the stock ones before failure.

After I asked my last question, someone did comment that you normally wouldn't replace the bushings. That's interesting.

Well, in any case, since your product will come with a ball joint and bushings, it will at least help me eliminate a couple of potential suspension problem areas. Eventually I'll wind up with the entire front end being replaced in my effort to get the suspension back to feeling tight. I guess all I can do is keep throwing money at the car and hope I'll stumble upon the problem.

Yes, true. It is common for bushings to fail if installed improperly. That was discussed plenty in this thread or in the other almost identical thread in the pre-98 maint post about the same bushings. Besides, anyone who is considering this upgrade should read the whole thread anyways. Reading is your friend and you can learn a lot.

As far as miles, you didn't ask that. But that was also talked about. And there is no way to say "bushings will last exactly 3,582.99 miles before failing". That is like me asking you "What will Microsoft's stock be trading at on Feb 12, 2006?" If the bushings are improperly torqued, they can last anywhere from 2 months miles to a year. If the arms WERE installed properly, there is no way to predict how long the arms and/or bushings will last. That depends on 50 different factors - the brand of arms, quality or arms, driving style, temperature, humudity, road conditions, the condition of the rest of your suspension, exposure to elements, exposure to road chemicals, alignment settings, etc. I have seen arms installed properly last 60k miles, I have seen arms installed properly last 20k miles. Howeverm they do not last forever and need to be replaced eventually like most parts on the car.

When the bushings go bad, you may experience uneven steering, poor turning response, unpredicable handling, knocking, clunking, you may see rubber shavings coming from the control arm, increased tire wear, uneven tire wear, ball joint wear and/or failure, etc.

And yes, the bushings can and do get replaced. FCP sells plenty of bushing replacement kits. However, the reason why some people say it's not common to replace the bushings is because if installed improperly they fail so fast, 9 out ot 10 people call where they got the arms from and say they are "defective", and the place sends them new arms under warranty. I talked to FCP and they said 90% of control arm warranty returns are bad bushings. So if you bought a set of arms, installed them wrong not knowing you did, and the bushings fried within 2 months, I doubt you would call FCP and order control arm bushings. You would say "these arms are junk I want them replaced ASAP." Also, the other reason why most people do not replace the bushings is because depending on how bad the bushings are worn, they will start to cause wear on the ball joint. So by the time you realize your control arm bushings are bad, your ball joints are bad now too. So it's time for a new arm anyways. However, with all that said, they DO sell plenty of stock replacement control arm bushings, and you CAN replace them. It's just usually easier to replace the whole arm since most people don't have a press.

[Qbrozen]

Yes, true. It is common for bushings to fail if installed improperly. That was discussed plenty in this thread or in the other almost identical thread in the pre-98 maint post about the same bushings. Besides, anyone who is considering this upgrade should read the whole thread anyways. Reading is your friend and you can learn a lot.

As far as miles, you didn't ask that. But that was also talked about. And there is no way to say "bushings will last exactly 3,582.99 miles before failing". That is like me asking you "What will Microsoft's stock be trading at on Feb 12, 2006?" If the bushings are improperly torqued, they can last anywhere from 2 months miles to a year. If the arms WERE installed properly, there is no way to predict how long the arms and/or bushings will last. That depends on 50 different factors - the brand of arms, quality or arms, driving style, temperature, humudity, road conditions, the condition of the rest of your suspension, exposure to elements, exposure to road chemicals, alignment settings, etc. I have seen arms installed properly last 60k miles, I have seen arms installed properly last 20k miles. Howeverm they do not last forever and need to be replaced eventually like most parts on the car.

When the bushings go bad, you may experience uneven steering, poor turning response, unpredicable handling, knocking, clunking, you may see rubber shavings coming from the control arm, increased tire wear, uneven tire wear, ball joint wear and/or failure, etc.

And yes, the bushings can and do get replaced. FCP sells plenty of bushing replacement kits. However, the reason why some people say it's not common to replace the bushings is because if installed improperly they fail so fast, 9 out ot 10 people call where they got the arms from and say they are "defective", and the place sends them new arms under warranty. I talked to FCP and they said 90% of control arm warranty returns are bad bushings. So if you bought a set of arms, installed them wrong not knowing you did, and the bushings fried within 2 months, I doubt you would call FCP and order control arm bushings. You would say "these arms are junk I want them replaced ASAP." Also, the other reason why most people do not replace the bushings is because depending on how bad the bushings are worn, they will start to cause wear on the ball joint. So by the time you realize your control arm bushings are bad, your ball joints are bad now too. So it's time for a new arm anyways. However, with all that said, they DO sell plenty of stock replacement control arm bushings, and you CAN replace them. It's just usually easier to replace the whole arm since most people don't have a press.

thank you for the responses (you too, JHE).

just to clarify that i'm not trying to be difficult, Slater, I DID ask about miles, and you even quoted my question when you reponded "this has been answered."

Here was my original question, again, as quoted by you: is it common for control arm bushings to fail ... about how many miles does this happen at ... and what are symptoms of failed bushings?

And, yes, people talked about replacement bushings failing, but I don't care about that as mine have never been replaced (if they had, i would have listed them when I rattled off the parts I have replaced thus far). I'm inquiring as to the expected life of the factory items. And I'm not asking about exact miles. Anytime we talk about any other item on these boards, we say "oh, most people find they need to replace shocks/struts at 100k" or "OEM endlinks go out about every 30k" and on and on. So I'm not sure why it is so difficult to answer this time.

Most times, I don't look to upgrade just for the hell of it. If something fails and requires replacing, then, yes, I will look to get a potentially better product at that time (as i did when i purchased your endlinks). Unfortunately, this time, nobody has been able to tell me "yes, the problems you are experiencing COULD be the control arm, control arm bushings, or ball joints." I sincerely apologize for apparently annoying you while trying to get an answer to my (what i thought was 'simple') question.

[Slater]

thank you for the responses (you too, JHE).

Here was my original question, again, as quoted by you: is it common for control arm bushings to fail ... about how many miles does this happen at ... and what are symptoms of failed bushings?

That's fine. It was probably 2 am when I answered that post. I have a lot going on right now and I get a few hours of sleep a night. I'm not perfect and didn't mean to come across like you were annoying. We are all here to learn.

Hopefully, your questions have all been answered in my post above. I listed a lot of specifics for you about mileage, time, why bushings fail, how common it is, symptoms of failed bushings, and even some bonus info from FCP groton.

As to "Unfortunately, this time, nobody has been able to tell me "yes, the problems you are experiencing COULD be the control arm, control arm bushings, or ball joints." I didn't see anywhere where you talked about what problems you are experiencing and what the causes may be. All I saw was your original question of is it common for control arm bushings to fail ... about how many miles does this happen at ... and what are symptoms of failed bushings? That is probably why no one gave you an answer - you didn't ask a question detailing that you were having a problem with this noise or that noise, this is what I have replaced so far and what I haven't yet, this is what I think it is, what do you guys think, etc. Or if you did I didn't see it.

So if your question still has not been answered and you are having some sort of problem with your suspension, why not post up a detailed description of the problem in the maintanance board, what you've looked at or replaced so far, etc and I'm sure we'll all give you things to check out and point you in the right direction.

[Qbrozen]

That's fine. It was probably 2 am when I answered that post. I have a lot going on right now and I get a few hours of sleep a night. I'm not perfect and didn't mean to come across like you were annoying. We are all here to learn.

Hopefully, your questions have all been answered in my post above. I listed a lot of specifics for you about mileage, time, why bushings fail, how common it is, symptoms of failed bushings, and even some bonus info from FCP groton.

As to "Unfortunately, this time, nobody has been able to tell me "yes, the problems you are experiencing COULD be the control arm, control arm bushings, or ball joints." I didn't see anywhere where you talked about what problems you are experiencing and what the causes may be. All I saw was your original question of is it common for control arm bushings to fail ... about how many miles does this happen at ... and what are symptoms of failed bushings? That is probably why no one gave you an answer - you didn't ask a question detailing that you were having a problem with this noise or that noise, this is what I have replaced so far and what I haven't yet, this is what I think it is, what do you guys think, etc. Or if you did I didn't see it.

So if your question still has not been answered and you are having some sort of problem with your suspension, why not post up a detailed description of the problem in the maintanance board, what you've looked at or replaced so far, etc and I'm sure we'll all give you things to check out and point you in the right direction.

thanks.

actually, i did post on the maintenance board a week or so ago (not to mention a thread on swedespeed a couple of weeks ago). And I reposted the info on this thread in my first message here (back around the top of page 5).

JHE said he has the same noise I am experiencing, but has not found a fix. (but the noise is just one aspect)

If anyone is interested in that thread, here it is:

http://volvospeed.com/vs_forum/index.php?showtopic=37707

thanks again.

[kir]

Some update on my "testdrive" of QBM Delrin bushings...

Steering is amazingly good, as it was from first day after installing them.

On the Volvo there is no difference in ride quality. It's just the suspension dynamics - the control arm bushings do not influence ride quality due to our car's suspension design.

From first look you can't really feel the difference in ride quality, and you can't feel ride quality difference on good road at normal speeds, but after some time you understand that suspension works much faster and potholes on high speed are passed much much better (doesn't mean that you shouldn't avoid them anymore ). Now I have a strong feeling that my Konis were designed to work with these delrin bushings. On high speeds car is more stable and feels closer to road.

[Slater]

Some update on my "testdrive" of QBM Delrin bushings...

Steering is amazingly good, as it was from first day after installing them.

From first look you can't really feel the difference in ride quality, and you can't feel ride quality difference on good road at normal speeds, but after some time you understand that suspension works much faster and potholes on high speed are passed much much better (doesn't mean that you shouldn't avoid them anymore ). Now I have a strong feeling that my Konis were designed to work with these delrin bushings. On high speeds car is more stable and feels closer to road.

Exactly. Instead of the rubber control arm bushings absorbing things, your suspension can do it's job and work like it should. Imagine that!

I too noticed that as the speed goes up, so does the stability and control. That is why I am anxious to see what Florian says after running the, on the Ring. I'm betting him $20 that he is gonna poop in his pants.

Thanks for the update Kirill!

by the way, it's gonna be a little longer on the kits. I am still waiting on the lubricant which was pushed back another week on the backorder from the manufacturer. The kits are complete otherwise and have been for weeks - just missing the lube. So I won't have kits ready to ship until 12/26 or so. Sorry kids. I know a lot of people have contacted me and are waiting to order a kit but it's just gonna be a little longer. The wait will be worth it though I promise.

[kir]

I too noticed that as the speed goes up, so does the stability and control.

Especially you can feel the difference after 150kmh. On 210kmh car has very solid feeling and feels very very close to the road. I used to switch lanes quickly on 210kmh on highway to airport yesterday late night (almost no cars) - car moves quickly, feels very stable and no "contr-shift" (spell?) as usually happens when you do quick maneurs on high speed.

[Slater]

Especially you can feel the difference after 150kmh. On 210kmh car has very solid feeling and feels very very close to the road. I used to switch lanes quickly on 210kmh on highway to airport yesterday late night (almost no cars) - car moves quickly, feels very stable and no "contr-shift" (spell?) as usually happens when you do quick maneurs on high speed.

Man, you guys have police there? haha

Cops here LOVE airports. Plenty of people in a rush to give speeding tickets to.

[lax01]

you get that 2nd batch ready? :)

[Slater]

you get that 2nd batch ready?

You mean the lax special? Yeah, I got you covered man...I'll PM you with the good news!

[kir]

Man, you guys have police there? haha

Cops here LOVE airports. Plenty of people in a rush to give speeding tickets to.

Yeah, we have some But quote affordable comparing even to delrin bushings pricing :P

[bus stop]

is there a "name list" for those who interest to buy this control arm bushing?

I'm interest to get a set for my car too :)

[Slater]

is there a "name list" for those who interest to buy this control arm bushing?

I'm interest to get a set for my car too

No, I get 10,000 PMs a day so a list like that is a little hard to manage with my health problems going on right now. As soon as they are ready I will post up the info and take orders at that time. Will be at or around the 26th. So keep your eyeballs peeled!

[dancetheman]

Exactly. Instead of the rubber control arm bushings absorbing things, your suspension can do it's job and work like it should. Imagine that!

I too noticed that as the speed goes up, so does the stability and control. That is why I am anxious to see what Florian says after running the, on the Ring. I'm betting him $20 that he is gonna poop in his pants.

Thanks for the update Kirill!

by the way, it's gonna be a little longer on the kits. I am still waiting on the lubricant which was pushed back another week on the backorder from the manufacturer. The kits are complete otherwise and have been for weeks - just missing the lube. So I won't have kits ready to ship until 12/26 or so. Sorry kids. I know a lot of people have contacted me and are waiting to order a kit but it's just gonna be a little longer. The wait will be worth it though I promise.

how many sets are there gonna be?

i don't wanna be out in the cold with these cuz i'll be outta town from the 27th til the 31st