How Badly To Liberals And Some Dems (boxer) Hate Bush?

[ultra_runner]

I think there is a fine point that most people here are missing.

Whether Bush was President for the past two terms or not, the President would be in a catch-22. There were terrorist attacks on the US during the Clinton years (just not on American soil) and he did nothing. But he got rave reviews because of the Economy which was a fluke due to the tech/internet boom. So then there was 9-11. If Bush or any other President sat back and did nothing - he would be criticized. If he went to war, initially he would be supported, but eventually criticized. The difference in my mind is... if that President is a Republican he catches crap... if it was a democrat the action would be justified. There seems to be a hyprocrocy in that.

Also - boys and girls, keep this in mind the following;

Remember 52 Americans were held hostage for 444 days by radical Iranians?

Remember prior to the 1st Gulf War, US warships had to patrol and escort the Straits of Hormuz to escort international oil tankers (under American flag) through the straits of Hormuz into international waters? Why? Because the Iranians were hitting these tankers with Surface to Surface missiles. If you want more education - I was there in the middle of it.

Remember Iraq invaded neighboring Kuwait - which at that time was a ally of the US? Oh - wait... Iran was once an Ally too.

Remember the restraint that Colin Powell used in stopping at the Kuwait/Iraq border when Schwartzkoff wanted to continue pushing right on into Iraq?

Remember Hussein threw Weapons inspectors out of Iraq after they found evidence of chemical and biological weapons development? Remember we said there would be concequences if the team of international weapons inspectors were not allowed back in?

Remember Hussein used chemical weapons on the Kurds to the North and Darn near killed everyone of them?

I've not gone on to mention the bombing of a US embassy, a marine barracks and a US destroyer to name a few other events.

Remember 9-11 came along and we were tired of doing nothing? The problem I see with Democracy is that it is so great that most people have short-term memory loss when it comes to bad things. As long as they have their white picket fences and their Starbucks - life is rosey. The majority of Americans have become a bunch of sheep unaware of what is going on in the world. Oh - and another part about Democracy is you can actually say something about it and not have your family killed and tortured over it. I forgot that part.

Remember - war it inevitable. It takes Statesmen to avoid war. A utopian global society is an impossible dream - it defies human nature. If you have utopia, there is always someone that will want it all for themselves, thus you have conflict. It takes Statesmen to prevent war, but war is always inevitable. Has been for thousands of years and will be for a thousand more.

My final words are... do I think Bush is the sharpest knife in the drawer? No way. But in a country as great as the US, look at the limited choices we have during Presidential Campaigns!!! It sux!!! So - we have Bush and he is in a catch-22. They next President will probably get us out of Iraq. Then what. We leave a vacuum and the same Iraqis that are busy killing their own people right now will take over or Iran will invade. Then what, another terrorist state or two?

So, we're in a catch-22 and the hypocracy from the liberal dems is expected but all out UN-AMERICAN and their actions eat away at the heart of what a democracy should be.

Don't even get me on the topic of Communism. Has never worked, and never will.

Peace out!

Scott C.

EDIT - DavidClanton (above) had faster fingers than mine! Good on ya David - BZ. I'm buying first round!

Edited January 8, 2006 by ultra_runner

[Zappo]

Also - boys and girls, keep this in mind the following;

Remember 52 Americans were held hostage for 444 days by radical Iranians?

You seem to think that nothing was done during that time. Carter ordered the military to go in and get them. The mission failed due to a collision of 2 planes on the ground in the dark. No way at that time the American people would have supported a full scale attack on Iran only a few years after pulling out of Vietnam.

The accident may have caused the push for night vision technology though. It wasn't too many years after that incident that night vision started to show up. Just a guess, but I am sure it fueled the cause.

Remember Iraq invaded neighboring Kuwait - which at that time was a ally of the US? Oh - wait... Iran was once an Ally too.

Remember the restraint that Colin Powell used in stopping at the Kuwait/Iraq border when Schwartzkoff wanted to continue pushing right on into Iraq?

There was no mutual defense agreement between the US and Kuwait, unlike Saudi Arabia. Once Iraqi forces crossed the Kuwait / Saudi border, they were free to chase them back all the way to Bagdad.

So, we're in a catch-22 and the hypocracy from the liberal dems is expected but all out UN-AMERICAN and their actions eat away at the heart of what a democracy should be.

So, democracy should be whatever the conservatives say it is?

I am not Republican or Democrat. As a conservative you most likely consider me a Democrat because most conservatives see things as black and white; you are either on this side of the fence or that side, there is no other choice.

I don't like Bush, mostly because he is sinking us deeper into debt and doesn't seem to see a problem with it. When he first took office, the government had an operating surplus, which he decided to use to bolster his support by send a $300 check to every taxpayer in the country. The surplus vanished long before all the checks were sent out.

Then 9/11 happens. Don't talk bad about GW, he needs our support. Not sure why this is different than any other time, but whatever. He decides to go after Bin Laden. No problem with that, kick his arse. Only the 'no war' types are going to have issue with that.

Iraq is a different story. He went into Iraq without strong evidence of the WMDs. Obviously, the inteligence was bad. Did he know before invading that it was bad? Who knows. Did we need to go into Iraq and get rid of Hussein? Yes. The problem I have is his plan was faulty. He grossly under estimated the cost of the war. He has no clear exit strategy because he moved to quickly. He probably would have started to lose support if he waited too long before invading. We may get stuck there for another decade before the new Iraqi gonvernment is strong enough to defend itself.

I don't think UN support for the invasion would have made much of a difference. The US always ends up paying for most of it anyway.

Through all of these, Bush is spending money like there is a surplus, yet operating like a typical Republican by continuing to cut taxes. Where is all of this money coming from? Will I see any benifit from these tax cuts? No, because I am not making 6 figures or more.

[ultra_runner]

You seem to think that nothing was done during that time. Carter ordered the military to go in and get them. The mission failed due to a collision of 2 planes on the ground in the dark. No way at that time the American people would have supported a full scale attack on Iran only a few years after pulling out of Vietnam.

The accident may have caused the push for night vision technology though. It wasn't too many years after that incident that night vision started to show up. Just a guess, but I am sure it fueled the cause.

There was no mutual defense agreement between the US and Kuwait, unlike Saudi Arabia. Once Iraqi forces crossed the Kuwait / Saudi border, they were free to chase them back all the way to Bagdad.

Incorrect - read up on the topic and you will find that it failed because the mission was engineered from the top down - the white collars with stars instead of the guys that would be executing the mission. The mission was flawed from the get-go and had a slim chance of success. Did anyone ask the helicopter pilot if he thought desert sand would get in the engines and flame out??? Nope.

So, democracy should be whatever the conservatives say it is?

I am not Republican or Democrat. As a conservative you most likely consider me a Democrat because most conservatives see things as black and white; you are either on this side of the fence or that side, there is no other choice.

I don't like Bush, mostly because he is sinking us deeper into debt and doesn't seem to see a problem with it. When he first took office, the government had an operating surplus, which he decided to use to bolster his support by send a $300 check to every taxpayer in the country. The surplus vanished long before all the checks were sent out.

Then 9/11 happens. Don't talk bad about GW, he needs our support. Not sure why this is different than any other time, but whatever. He decides to go after Bin Laden. No problem with that, kick his arse. Only the 'no war' types are going to have issue with that.

Zap - I agree with you on most of the above. Democracy is not a Republican or Democrat thing. I can show you a equal number of dumb Reps as Dems. For me - I'm an American first before politics. I wish our politicians were as well.

On the point of going after Bin Laden - this was a major f-up. In hind sight, we should have called the Russians who have a bit of unfinished business with Afganistan. Tell them, Hey - I'm coming in with 100K troops from the south, you come in from the North - and we'll meet in the middle. The only thing we didn't do to let BL get away was buy him a first class ticket! Another screw up from the top down.

Iraq is a different story. He went into Iraq without strong evidence of the WMDs. Obviously, the inteligence was bad. Did he know before invading that it was bad? Who knows. Did we need to go into Iraq and get rid of Hussein? Yes. The problem I have is his plan was faulty. He grossly under estimated the cost of the war. He has no clear exit strategy because he moved to quickly. He probably would have started to lose support if he waited too long before invading. We may get stuck there for another decade before the new Iraqi gonvernment is strong enough to defend itself.

I don't think UN support for the invasion would have made much of a difference. The US always ends up paying for most of it anyway.

I'm not even going to argue that point because I basically agree with you on this to an extent. But - in if you were in Bush's shoes, what would YOU have done??? Also - we were going on the evidence of WMD from the previous inspections at that time, plus he had used chemical weapons in the past.

BUT none of this has anything to do with the POST TOPIC.

Through all of these, Bush is spending money like there is a surplus, yet operating like a typical Republican by continuing to cut taxes. Where is all of this money coming from? Will I see any benifit from these tax cuts? No, because I am not making 6 figures or more.

You saying the Dems don't spend??? Give me a break. I love programs like "ebonics" in the school. Again - much of this is off topic to the original post. My only point was the amount of hypocracy that goes on when things get messy - and they are messy.

So - who is qualified to run in the next election??? Suggestions, Rep - Dem or otherwise??? I cannot think of any!!! Oh wait, Mary Carey might be one of them.

At this point in American history, the ONLY way to survive this is if Reps and Dems put their Darn agendas to the side and work together as Americans first. We have enough crap going on right now, we don't need to be fighting internal battles as well. THAT is the gist of the topic post.

Scott C.

Edited January 8, 2006 by ultra_runner

[Zappo]

BUT none of this has anything to do with the POST TOPIC.

Ok, I will go on topic. Republicans and Democrats are constantly going after each other. The Demos are picking at everything Bush does now and in the past. But this is no different than the Reps going after Clinton during his 8 years in office. It wasn't to this extent with presidents before Clinton and GW, it just seems the fighting between the parties is getting worse.

You saying the Dems don't spend??? Give me a break.

No, I have said this before. Bush cuts taxes like a republican and spends like a democrat. Doing both is dangerous.

So - who is qualified to run in the next election??? Suggestions, Rep - Dem or otherwise??? I cannot think of any!!! Oh wait, Mary Carey might be one of them.

The problem is, the ones who would good don't run. The democrats screwed up the last election by going with Kerry. He was definately not the best candidate. If he does decide to run again (which would be a mistake) he probably won't make it out of the primaries.

At this point, I don't think there are enough declared candidates. Just too early.

I have thought that Powell would be a good choice, but he most likely will never run. His wife is afraid he would be assasinated.

At this point in American history, the ONLY way to survive this is if Reps and Dems put their Darn agendas to the side and work together as Americans first. We have enough crap going on right now, we don't need to be fighting internal battles as well. THAT is the gist of the topic post.

Like I said earlier, the fighting only seems to be getting worse, so I don't see them working together on anything anytime soon. Unless there is another major incident, but even then they will still argue over how to respond.

Some have suggested having 2 presidents because the job is just too big. One for domestic issues, one for international. Don't see that happening either.

As for the topic and poll, it is clearly written by a republican who seems to be out to pick on the democrats.

[davidclanton]

ultra runner,

Right on man, well put. I'd like to buy you a round as well. Unfortunately, most people seem too anxious to jump on the

Bush-bashing bandwagon. There really are more important things at stake than petty politics.

Edited January 9, 2006 by davidclanton

[starfish]

Hey Zappo, FYI the Bush tax cut is bringing in more money to the governments coffers than ever before. Next time you pick up a paper, throw the front section in the bottom of the bird cage or on the floor with the puppies because the business section is where the real story is. The Bush economy is red hot!

[Trunks850R]

^^^^^^^^THANK YOU!!!!! i think this tread is done now!!!

[davidclanton]

^^^^^^^^THANK YOU!!!!! i think this tread is done now!!!

I am in shock. I can't believe we could potentially end such a politically-charged thread on a positive note. You guys are great!!! And on this same day the NYSE will likely exceed 11,000...have an awesome day!

[Trunks850R]

I am in shock. I can't believe we could potentially end such a politically-charged thread on a positive note. You guys are great!!! And on this same day the NYSE will likely exceed 11,000...have an awesome day!

.

couldnt have done it without you!!!!!!!!

[resa850]

ANDd CUT!!!!