Traveling Abroad

[RAzOR]

The fact that the US federal government isn't resolute on fixing issues such as education, health care and social security is still not enough. Those are much bigger priorities to the American people than the 1/2 trillion dollar effort in Iraq.

As for china and indias growth rates. True the rates aren't comparable, but let me tell you if i had anything to sell or make right now I'd want to be doing so in China. They have a population that is mobilizing to and past the wal-mart style consumer, while domestically more and more noth americans are being forced into wal-marts.

North Americans (moreso Americans than Canadians, but we're still behind the 8 ball) have lost the competitive edge, and wasting money the way the Bush administration does isn't helping to rectify that problem.

Not sure I agree with you on the more Americans forced into Wal Mart but overall agreed!

Viva la Revolucion! <spelling!>

Edited February 24, 2006 by RAzOR

[WhiteT5]

Taking action against all the crooked politicians would never work. We'd be left without a government .

[Asinine]

It's not a matter of taking action against crooked politicians, it's a matter of getting the crooked politicans to make some good policy decisions.

And Razor, i don't think it would be tough to prove that more and more Americans are becoming Wal-Mart shoppers than are escaping Wal-Mart consumerism. Check same-store sales comps, although they wouldn't be obligated to release this data, i'm sure they track the number of customers in some form or another.

[starfish]

So, I'm sure we all remember that ...

The financial funny money party Enron, Tyco, WorldCom etc. enjoyed occured during the 1990's. Former Federal Reserve Chairman Greenspan, forewarned us as having "irrational exuberance" in a highly speculative market within a speech he made in December of 1996. The market continued its ascent until March of 2000 when the bubble of Dot-coms, telecoms and others fell to pieces. We had an artificially low energy rate where oil went down to $10/barrel. Clinton had his Energy Secretary Bill Richardson visit Saudi Arabia when prices were at their lowest to press to raise oil prices. In 1999, President Clinton begged OPEC to raise oil prices in order to finance the Russian war in Chechnya. Clinton needed Russia's help with his own little war in Kosovo. Clinton quietly used OPEC oil diplomacy to supply Russia increased energy profits. The influx of cash into Moscow was mainly obtained through Iraqi oil sold by the U.N. and distributed through Russian suppliers. The oil sales helped Saddam Hussein re-arm his military with a brand new Chinese-built air defense system. The move is also now seen as a major blunder that triggered the 2001 recession.

GWB was elected fairly within the Constitutional guidlines, not appointed by the Supreme Court and began office January of 2000. This phoney baloney pumped up market based on highly speculative stocks and extremely low energy costs gave the Clinton administration the leverage to tell the people how his policies were creating a surplus. The bottom line was there was never any surplus ever because the earnings never materialized period. President Clintons last days in office were spent parolling criminals. GWB first days were bringing charges against these very individuals you mentioned. We had 8 years of political corruption and now we are paying that debt.

Have you ever been to New Orleans prior to Katrina? If you did you would know that it was a sh*t hole. New Orleans and the State of Louisianna both have a long history of political corruption. That town is the example of what exactly a panacea of liberalism has to offer the citizens. What we had there was a morally corrupt leadership spending the money earmarked for levee repairs on social programs and gambling casinos instead of security for their citizens. New Orleans prior to Katrina was lead by populist politicians eager to pass out cash from the public trusts in order to secure power. The best thing that has ever and could ever happen to those poor unfortunate souls who were lucky to survive the disaster was to be forcefully relocated. Only in a different area with different representatives and new ideas can help many of these people break out of the cycle of crime/poverty/victimization of political corruption. Do you honestly think that GWB will bring charges of corruption against Mayor Nagin and Governor Blanco? Why are you not holding these people to the your same standards for their gross mismanagement. FEMA is not a first responder, city and state government agencies are. Why did the mayor of N O not evacuate his citizens that were unable to leave on their own out in time? He certainly had fair warning. Anyone whoever has visited that town could tell that it was unsafe!

You continued with saying - "the US politicians need to LOVE America to accomplish anything real. Hockey used to be Canada's game, as geopolitical dominance used to be Americas!" The current 24 hour a day news cycles certainly added to that misconception. Most news reporting today seems to be about capturing sound bites and not getting truth or context of events recorded properly. Generally the media is run by a bunch of Pinko's who will propagate any lie to damage conservatives, or America or capitalism. Look into how much newspaper distribution has declined and how irrelevant nightly news shows on tv have become. People are either sick of it or too dumbed down to care?

[Asinine]

I think that's a really poor explanation!

Bill Clinton did not balloon the markets, and cudos to Greenspan for seeing the overbought market and calling it. Also, cudos to Clinton for acknowleding the power behind OPEC, too bad exploiting that has lead to $60/bbl oil, but that's not his fault, OPEC would have figured it out soon enough, as the oligopoly model developed as did the Chinese and Indian economies - partially under the open markets mantra Clintion actually believed in, not just claimed as GWB does.

I demand accountability, and if you want to blame the political ills of the US of today on Clinton, that's just crazy. I do think Nagin should be held responsible for his part, but GWB sits at the top of that convoluded beuracracy and has the power and the information to make executive decisions to mobilize national organizations, funds and military assets to save lives, he failed to do so. The city of New Orleans' budget and capital could not have made a significant impact on the situation. National assets without a doubt could have, failure to employ them needs to be accounted for! Just because poor black liberal sinners or whatever died does not make it ok, or maybe it does, and it finally proves how embedded racism still remains in the US as a part of its own domestic policy - i'm also thinking of illegal immigrant issues regarding Mexicans doing work 'no American should have to do or would do'.

I'm going to assume that by not even mentioning the war in Iraq you acknowledge that it is and continues to be a total blunder of intelligence and action. All of which occured on one or both of the George Bush's watches. The war in Iraq that has cost over 2,000 American lives and altered by injuray over 20 or 30,000 was a political choice, not a political or strategic necessity.

I don't follow US congressional events with enough depth to rhyme off the recent resignations and accusations of high powered US political figures but those exist in 2005 and 2006, not in 2001. These are not Clinton's problems, GWB is ruining the USA, and any attempts to skirt the blame to past presidents or really any other cause are futile.

As for GWB's first presidential election - his appointment came down to the decision of the supreme court and no one else. He lost the popular vote, and by all accounts lost the vote in Florida. If you want to play legal loop hole game with his appointment to the office of the President then you can't dismiss it and blame accounting loophole-ing that occured with Tyco, Worldcom, Enron, etc. as Bill Clintons fault.

Weak argument, Bush is bad for the globe, and especially bad for Americans!

[wills]

First off what has Canada done for ANYONE?

Which war did you folks get involved in first? With a military the size of New York's police dept. is it a wonder you depend on our lives for your freedom?

What technology have you invented to get oil and the mid east animals out of power?

Healthcare? I hope you never need surgery or any major treatment, you will die waiting for your socialized medicine to see you. Where do you think the best health care is located, not in Canada.

Does your economy add jobs at the pace ours does...not!

While you sign the back of your weekly paycheck, frustrated at the lack of personal progress you look for someone else to blame?

[Asinine]

Don't bypass the word filter you're as ignorant as Anne Coutler with respect to Canada, and probably dumber with respect to domestic issues.

you obviously have no idea what you are talking abut, and for that reason, i'm not even going to waste time rebuting those untruths!

Edited February 27, 2006 by JESSE850GLT

[starfish]

Asinine, you seem to have a problem digesting truth. Why don't you spend some time researching any of the points you make or counterpoints of your argument that were presented. It seems that the conservative members arguments put forth are based on statistics, published government facts or authentic quotes from politicians not feelings or emotions. If you have anything other than liberal rhetoric, bring it on.

[HtownTurboBrick]

The best thing that has ever and could ever happen to those poor unfortunate souls who were lucky to survive the disaster was to be forcefully relocated

i'm not even going to try to hop in this argument...but this part of your little speech bug the hell out of me. what about the people who didn't survive? all the people who starved, suffered and drowned to death in that storm? how many lives could of been saved and how many families would still have the ones they loved so much by their side if there was a better response off the bat?

As far as evacuating an entire city...that would of never been a possibility. those who could of made it out did, those he didn't leave, couldn't...we recieved 300,000 ppl to Houston from the N.O. and i first handedly saw the devastation those families went thru. When rita hit the Texas coast, Houston and surrounding areas implemented the largest evacuation this country has ever seen. Houston is by far a much richer city then N.O., which meant the majority of people could leave. It took 48 hrs for most people to make it from Houston to Dallas, which is at most on a regular day a 4 hr drive. There was absolutely no fuel anywhere in houston, galveston, kingwood, conroe, beaumont, sugarland n missouri city and all the locations on the road to the cities people evacuated to, for 4 days after the storm. Most people had to turn around n go back home because they had no fuel to make it out of town. National guard had to bring in tankers n fill ppl's tanks on the roadside. N.O. would of never been able to supply enough fuel for their citizens to make it out and there was no way it could have been organzied sucessfully. The only reason that the Houston evac was successful on any level is because Katrina was a huge lesson and gave us greater planning strategies then we could of ever devised on our own.

thats all, i just wanted to make that point clear, u guys may resume your original arguments. and please do not try to argue with me about this whatsoever unless u were in N.O. yourself or in any of the hit areas. your statements on the situation otherwise would be third party information and pretty much irrelevant and disrespectful for those who suffered most.

Edited February 27, 2006 by HtownTurboBrick

[Asinine]

Awesome.. +1 for the personal anecdote! The idea that the blame rests on the citizens or the mayor is crazy!

Practically no one predicted the devastation that would ensue. Sure some published reports years before mentioned the poor state of the Levees (sp?) but the president had other pork to fund and wars to run. The fact is that a evacuation that was necessary has never been expected or planned for in US history, not to mention what asking people to evacuate means - especially the multitudes of people who live below the poverty line - can't afford rent, how can they afford a bus ticket and a super 8 AND rent.

Starfish, there have been no such statistics or published government "facts" produced in this thread except maybe by me. And how much creedence do US government 'fact' carry these days anyway?

You really are quite daft. Come in here and slam Canada in the most ignorant display I've seen in a long time. Each of your points would deserve it's own thread in defence of my nation to illustrate how truly messed up your stereotypes are, but on their own they are worthless because they are so painfull off the mark. You're a very very dumb person... at least politically, and probably not coincidentally, a staunch republican and Bush supporter.

I dare you to have an intelligent debate with me on US domestic policy. I'm quite certain I'd pwn you, and I'm not even American.

[Asinine]

speaking of trampled liberties... should have kept the old title..

Edited February 27, 2006 by Asinine

[starfish]

My God! What a pompous egotistical jerk! You are certainly "asinine" for a reason!

[wills]

What we have here is another macro mouthed, micro brained liberal who thinks he knows everything with no experience or accomplishments of any sort. ;)

[Che'_Moderator]

Awesome.. +1 for the personal anecdote! The idea that the blame rests on the citizens or the mayor is crazy!

Practically no one predicted the devastation that would ensue. Sure some published reports years before mentioned the poor state of the Levees (sp?) but the president had other pork to fund and wars to run. The fact is that a evacuation that was necessary has never been expected or planned for in US history, not to mention what asking people to evacuate means - especially the multitudes of people who live below the poverty line - can't afford rent, how can they afford a bus ticket and a super 8 AND rent.

Starfish, there have been no such statistics or published government "facts" produced in this thread except maybe by me. And how much creedence do US government 'fact' carry these days anyway?

You really are quite daft. Come in here and slam Canada in the most ignorant display I've seen in a long time. Each of your points would deserve it's own thread in defence of my nation to illustrate how truly messed up your stereotypes are, but on their own they are worthless because they are so painfull off the mark. You're a very very dumb person... at least politically, and probably not coincidentally, a staunch republican and Bush supporter.

I dare you to have an intelligent debate with me on US domestic policy. I'm quite certain I'd pwn you, and I'm not even American.

I was in LA for both storms. Everyone who wanted to leave could have. If they wanted to stay they should have had water and food on hand. There is no excuse not to fill a tub with water. The mayor has huge amount of his personal money invested in insurance companies all over the city. As someone who lived there in the last 5 years, spent 2-3 months there since the last storm and has read the GAO reports, trust me. 90% of those people screwed themselves.

[gdizzle]

I was in LA for both storms. Everyone who wanted to leave could have. If they wanted to stay they should have had water and food on hand. There is no excuse not to fill a tub with water. The mayor has huge amount of his personal money invested in insurance companies all over the city. As someone who lived there in the last 5 years, spent 2-3 months there since the last storm and has read the GAO reports, trust me. 90% of those people screwed themselves.

amen