Figawi Posted July 10, 2006 Report Share Posted July 10, 2006 changes are pretty good its your air pump and SAS valve. i would start by replacing those first. check on ebay for a used air pump. an SAS valve is $80 through FCP groton. the dealer can give you the radio code if you give them your VIN #. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfeener Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 In this case the parts is pretty much what you see. The SAS valve is a Genuine Volvo only part. You can get it cheaper but not all that much. The air pump is made by pierburg and is used by a variety or car manufacturers. Again, no matter where you buy it from, if it's a new part it's pretty close to $300. The O2 sensors; I always stick with Genuine Volvo parts. Other have gone with other brands and some have had good luck and some...not so much.If I were buying the parts I would get them from either myswedishparts.com or FCPgroton.com. You can save a few bucks over the dealer list price, but it's not huge. If the dealer didn't quote you a new air pump, there's a good chance you don't need one. It's real easy to check (so I'm assumming that's what the dealer did); all you need to do is pull the air pump relay located in the kidney shaped fuse/relay box and, with a 12 guage or so jumper wire, jumper the two large spade connectors (the small spade connectors feed the relay coil). Even with the key off, there's power to this relay and the air pump motor should run and pump air up to the SAS valve. If it runs it's good; if it doesn't it's not...real simple...it's just an air pump..no more...no less.Without the codes that generated the CEL, it's impossible to tell if one or both or none of the O2 sensors are bad. O2 sensors are normally good for around 100K miles so you're getting close. In my 98 S70 I have the original rear O2 sensor and I'm on my 3rd front O2 sensor at 192K miles.The labor price quote from the dealer seems excessive. The SAS valve and the two O2 sensors shouldn't take more than a couple hours at the most. More like an hour if the tech is any good. This is someting any good Volvo indy can do for you, but you need to get us the codes (all the codes). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitchur Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 Pfeener:I re-checked the code at AutoZone yesterday. The code is still P0410. But I currently have put 193 miles after I had erased the previous codes. So my guess is that the Secondary Air system monitors have run now. How does the code work? Does P0410 override the codes that are generated for the O2 sensors? I have not taken the car to the dealer yet. The quote I got was all through email conversations with the dealer. My appointment with the dealer is this Friday, 7/14. So maybe I do need the air-pump which would cost around $300 + labor.I am also checking with an indy next to my home. But his timings are till only 5PM. So it is kind of tough for me. Also from EPA IL, I found some real-good documents on OBDII and also a repair manual that shows how the repair-shops have performed in IL. I felt it was pretty cool for the emissions-test folks to release this info to the public. If anyone is interested in IL, they can get these documents from the following site: http://www.epa.state.il.us/air/vim/. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seamus Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 The SAS valve and the two O2 sensors shouldn't take more than a couple hours at the most. More like an hour if the tech is any good. This is someting any good Volvo indy can do for you, but you need to get us the codes (all the codes).So! Let me get this right??? If I am a "good tech" and I can get the job done in 30 min you should pay me less? If I was a moron and it took me 3 hours and I jacked it all up in the process you owe me three hours labor?? I know of no other job where the better I get the less people expect to pay me. Does Shumaker get less money when he wins? Hey! He spent less time out there? Does the winner of the Boston marathon not disserve the prize money because he was so fast? Come on! “He only spent a bit over two hours on this run and he made it look so easy!!” The labor times are BASED on book time. This time does not exactly reflect how long it takes. Who is paying me for my knowledge? I’m just sayin!!! <_< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfeener Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 To Seamus: I understand your point and I don't disagree with your logic (I'm fine with the flate rate system as long as it's not abused, and you work in it, so you know it can be), but wouldn't you agree that 5 plus hours (@ $100/hour) is a bit excessive to change a SAS valve and two O2 sensors?The PO410 code won't over-write any other codes that may be stored. When the reader is plugged into your system it will indicate how many codes are stored and you can step through and read them one by one. Now, having said that, either the guy at AutoZone only read the first one, or that's all there was. If PO410 is the only code then just work on the secondary Air system and don't do anything to the O2 sensors until you get rid of the PO410 and see if any other codes get set. The O2 sensors are expensive and if they aren't setting codes and your gas milage is OK, then leave them be. If the dealer hasn't seen the car to diagnose it, then most likely you will need a SAS valve and air pump. It'll be in the $600 - 700 range and most of it is parts. Taking it to an indy won't be that much cheaper. I would advise against a used Volvo pump; so many of them are bad , the odds aren't good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitchur Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 Pfeener:When the AutoZone guy plugged in the Reader, the scanner read 1 of 1. So I am guessing there was only one code stored P0410. Reason I asked for the O2 sensor quote was due to the response from you stating that if the CEL comes on before 100-200 miles, then mostly it is the O2 sensors. Another question I have is since I already have the DTC as P0410, why is the Dealer charging for the diagnostic test. Is it true that the Volvo Code Reader will be more sophisticated than the AutoZone Code reader and it will give all other DTC's that the AutoZone reader did not detect?Somewhere I read that the Volvo Reader is around $4000 and a normal reader is only around $50. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfeener Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 The O2 sensor was just a "gut feel" on my part. If you only have one code, go with that. The diagnostic tool the dealer has is much more extensive than anything the average homeowner would have, but in the case of the secondary air system, in most cases it's not necessary. The secondary air system is very straight forward. It's turned on by the ECU and blows air into the exhaust...end of story. The PO410 failure is very common on Volvos. It's normally a pump and the SAS valve replacement. I'm on my 3rd SAS valve and pump on my 98 S70. I installed a used VW air pump I bought off ebay the last time around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aldug Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 Pitchur:I had the same P0410 CEL that you and many others have described. You can pretty much count on your SAS valve being bad, but your pump may still be ok. You can jump the two larger terminals for the air pump relay and see if your hear your pump spin up. If it spins up, it is still working (although you may want to disconnect the hoses and make sure no water has accumulated). If it doesn't spin up and you have checked all of the wiring connections, you need a new pump. I bought a new SAS valve, gasket and mounts from FCP Groton and I bought a used VW pump and changed the wiring harness and exhaust plate as indicated on ___.com. It took me less than 2 hours to do the entire repair (including the pump refit) and cost less than $200. A good chunk of my time was spent getting off the front most bolt for the SAS valve. CEL has been off for 500 miles and I just passed the NY inspection with flying colors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitchur Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 Pfeener:This is the latest I got from the Dealer. Diagnostic test from the dealer is not with the OBDII scanner. It seems that the Diagnostic test is with gas-analyzer that checks the CO content to check if the fuel is too-lean or too-rich.Cost for diagnostic test is $208 (2 hours of labor).Dealer said that the code P0410 does not mean anything to them. I was shocked to learn about this. Split up from the dealer is as follows. Total would come to around $1100.Labor for Air-pump+Valve = 2.5 hoursIf they replace air-pump, there is no labor charge for the valve. Parts COSTAir-pump $381.86Valve+gasket $144.89Labor $260.00TOTAL $825.36Diagnostic test = $208 + taxGrand total ~ $1100Hourly rate = $104/hr.Looking at the labor costs, they are charging me 5.2 hours of labor to make sure that it passes the emissions test in IL. They will take the car to the emissions-facility and pass it. The labor cost and the parts-cost was kind of high to me after checking the FCPGroton website. I am leaning more and more towards doing it myself with my wife's help. I got the parts-list from FCP Groton and have also attached the document here. Pfeener can you please check and confirm if I am ordering the correct parts for the Air-pump + SAS Valve. I sent you an email but I am not sure if it made through from this forum.Also, can someone send me clear instructions on the SAS Valve replacement. I see postings that some hose breaks up and some connections are brittle etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfeener Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 The PO410 code is the generic code. The dealer doesn't use it. They have their own code for the same thing. The price the dealer is quoting you is what I would expect. I received your email and responded. I'd be happy to help you through this repair if you choose to do it yourself.If you order an air pump and a SAS valve for a 98 S70 you will get the right stuff. Also include in the order a gasket for the SAS valve. Doing it yourself will cost about $400 in parts & shipping. Look at it this way. You have nothing to loose. If if you can't do it yourself for whatever reason, you can alway take the parts to a Volvo indy and have them installed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitchur Posted July 14, 2006 Report Share Posted July 14, 2006 Pfeener:Ok. I did the Air-pump test through the Relay. I had to buy a 14G bundle from Menards because they don't sell 14G wires for 6 inch or a foot. First, I removed the 2nd yellow Relay and put it on the 1st Yellow relay to test if the Car will start. And it did. So the Relay looks to be good. Then I put a jumper wire on the 2nd Relay's spade connectors. But there was no movement on the AIR Pump. So I am thinking that I need to replace both the Air Pump and the SAS Valve. I have attached a document with parts from the FCP Groton site. It was cheaper than the myswedishparts.com website. Can you please confirm if these parts are correct? Do I need the Air Intake hose?A couple of other questions:1. Removing the Battery - Is it hazardous or risky? It says so on the cover of the battery.2. If I screw up something on the Battery, air-pump and SAS Valve, will the Car still work if I reconnect the Battery?3. What tools do I need. For ex. 10mm wrench, etc. I just have a toolbox and have never worked with this. Some postings talk about vacuum gauge etc. Do I need to buy any of these instruments like voltmeter, ammeter etc?Thank you for your help and suggestions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfeener Posted July 14, 2006 Report Share Posted July 14, 2006 You only need the air pump, SAS valve and a gasket for the SAS valve.1. removing the battery is not normally a hazardous task. Just be careful to not short the two battery terminals together with a tool or the frame of the car.2. the car will still start if you put the battery back in without the air pump. The SAS valve has to be mounted though or you will leak exhaust gas.3. No special tools; with the exception of removing the bolts on the SAS valve. It's pretty tight and you will need a very short wrench to fit. As I said in a previous post, I cut a wrench in half and did some grinding on it so it would fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfeener Posted July 14, 2006 Report Share Posted July 14, 2006 The file you sent has the correct parts for your 98 S70. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bockdharma Posted July 20, 2006 Report Share Posted July 20, 2006 First, let me say thanks to all that have contributed to this thread. It has been VERY helpful!Ok, I have the PO410 code as well and I am hoping it's only the SAS valve.I have only had the vehicle for a month and the CEL is on...got the code...and started researching. The clamp is NOT on the main air line to the SAS valve. This tells me somebody knew about this issue. Anyhow I can't get the darn tube off to see if air is blowing. How hard can I pull w/o wrecking something? Can I spray some penetrate around to hopefully help ease it off?Also, I attempted to jump the air pump relay terminals in an attempt to get the air pump to start. FYI, we are talking about a 98 V70XC AWD, 2.5L, turbo of course.In the main fuse panel I can local the four relays--per the label, the second one from the left with a large "J" s/b the air pump. However, when I jumper the main spade connections, I can turn the starter!! The starter relay s/b the third from right and the A/C relay should be the fourth. They are labeled incorrectly--per the owners manual the air pump relay is third from left.Since I can't easily get the hose off the SAS, I was wanting to bump the air pump to isolate the problem. When I jumper the relay, the pump sounds to me like it spins, but only for two seconds or less. At that point I hear a relay open elsewhere and the air pump motor stops. What is happening? Any help is appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bockdharma Posted July 20, 2006 Report Share Posted July 20, 2006 Reference post above, I did swap relays around as well--problem is not the relay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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