So The Middle East Just Exploded....

[starfish]

Well I don't think moderate muslims would ever get Airtime no matter how vocal they are, and they are vocal. But when a Radicals opens his mouth every media outlet in know universe is covering it.

You are totally correct in this statement. The insanely criminal anti-American liberal media is all about favorable press for radical extremist wild-eyed crazy people, that's why they like democrats!

Kashif there is a distinct difference between the muslim people in this country versus the folks we are dealing with on the otherside of the world(at least I hope so?). Islam in the middle-east today represents more of a fascist political movement than a r-e-l-i-g-i-o-n, probably being the number one reason so many choose to get-the-hell-out-of-there in the first place.

You point out an event of christians attacking muslims in Indonesia. You need to research that story a little deeper than what the reporter posted in his AP story. There is a big factual difference between it and the reality of the situation. We can go on all day about the huge death tolls of christians in Pakistan, Ethipoia, Eat Timor, Sudan, Ivory Coast, Egypt, Kenya, Nigeria, the Phillippines, etc., by radical muslims who are unwilling to live peacefully with their neighbors while some scholar assures us that Islam is a peaceful and loving r-e-l-i-g-i-o-n.

[starfish]

I don't really believe that any one person or group of people can Hijack a dogma. Islam is based on the Quran and Prophet traditions, just like Christainity is based on the Bible.

My Christian church like many, helps to educate the masses, to feed or clothe the needy or provide safe housing to the poor. We assist financially for needed medical care, eyeglasses or hearing aids. We have a Ladies Auxillary that raises monies through the sale of home baked goods or cook books for charities. There is a Mens club that works with the mentally or physically handicapped as well as the blind or deaf. The children raise money or collect items for the elderly or sick children as they visit them in hospitals or care facilities. We have special collections for victims of disasters around the world and at home. Many of our members have used their vacation time from work to travel great distances and help provide general labor or their professional skills or services to the needy and the poorest of the poor. By far, we are a very giving and compassionate community.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/wo...-home-headlines

[Kashif]

You are totally correct in this statement. The insanely criminal anti-American liberal media is all about favorable press for radical extremist wild-eyed crazy people, that's why they like democrats!

Kashif there is a distinct difference between the muslim people in this country versus the folks we are dealing with on the otherside of the world(at least I hope so?). Islam in the middle-east today represents more of a fascist political movement than a r-e-l-i-g-i-o-n, probably being the number one reason so many choose to get-the-hell-out-of-there in the first place.

For your first statement, I would say that FOX news also jumps all over radical stories because it sell's news. I would say both liberal and conservative media are at fault.

For your second statement could you define fascist for me, I don't really know how you define it.

My Christian church like many, helps to educate the masses, to feed or clothe the needy or provide safe housing to the poor. We assist financially for needed medical care, eyeglasses or hearing aids. We have a Ladies Auxillary that raises monies through the sale of home baked goods or cook books for charities. There is a Mens club that works with the mentally or physically handicapped as well as the blind or deaf. The children raise money or collect items for the elderly or sick children as they visit them in hospitals or care facilities. We have special collections for victims of disasters around the world and at home. Many of our members have used their vacation time from work to travel great distances and help provide general labor or their professional skills or services to the needy and the poorest of the poor. By far, we are a very giving and compassionate community.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/wo...-home-headlines

Like I said a religion is based on it's basic tenets and not the ramdom public who profess that they are part of the religion.

Edited September 24, 2006 by Kashif

[RAzOR]

Fascist is someone who practices fascism.

Fascism is a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.

In this case the dictator is the strict application of the religeon itself through Shira Law. Not a particluar person. I think it is more of a Theocracy with Theocrats myself.

[alyesko]

i still dont understand why someone would do that even if i did misplace somehting so simple as chocolate crackers.

[TG850T5R]

WOW, this discussion is still going on? ...... NICE!

[Kashif]

I guess it's Razor's and my posts that have kept resuscitating this topic. Everytime it goes into Code Blue we are there for a healthy shock, CLEAR! :lol:

Edited September 25, 2006 by Kashif

[TG850T5R]

I guess it's Razor's and my posts that have kept resuscitating this topic. Everytime it goes into Code Blue we are there for a healthy shock, CLEAR!

You guys are doing a good job!

[RAzOR]

Bump. :lol:

[Serdar-S60T5]

hello.

it's the first time i'll be commenting on a political discussion here. so please forgive me in advance for a very long post

i live in a country where 99% of the population including the majority of my friends are muslims. my parents, although they've always called themselves muslims (probably out of tradition), do not practise this dogma in any way other than praying before they go to bed. they have never pressed me or my sister to do so either. i've been given some education on this dogma at elementary school & high school. i've read the quran and the bible at my own will. and also read some about these religions' histories. to sum it up, none of it makes sense.

anyway, the reason i told you all this stuff is to let everyone know that i'm as objective as someone who was "first born as a muslim" could possibly be. and personally, i am not a muslim. i don't believe in any religions. not islam, not christianity, nothing. when you approach them with a very clear mind and consciousness, there is no way a bright and educated mind will believe any of those holy books. but that's another subject which i will not go into here. and please, no offence to anyone who has faith in one of these religions.

what runs the world is economics (money) and power, and all religions are just disguises to that.

for one thing, i can tell you very clearly that quran definitely does not say that those who do not convert should be killed. there is no such commandment in the holy book of islam.

but it is indeed true that islam was "initially" spread by the sword. of course there may have been people who converted to islam with their own will and faith when they heard or read about it. but for an example i know that turks converted to islam long after it was born to the world, only when they were attacked several times and finally were beaten by the muslim arabs.

so from that byzantian emperor's point of view, islam was brought to turks by sword and from turks to anatolia, and constantinople, and eastern europe, again by sword. but that was in the year 1453. everything was being dealt with the sword.

now when you look at them closely, there are supposed to be a lot of similarities in all religions. promoting the good virtues and all that bla bla bla.

prophet mohammed, differently from christ who was only a spiritual leader, was the leader of a state. an empire to be more precise. an islamic empire.

the difference between islam and other religions is that, quran as a holy book, describes not only the way to live and what to believe, but also the way to govern a state. it is designed to rule, regulate and also enforce its laws to those who believe and practice it. don't get me wrong, it is not intended to be negative or evil at all, its rules are meant for the good of people, but it is poorly designed because it is not democratic, and it's very open to abuse by its own people.

a country can not be "truly islamic", but also secular at the same time. unless it is lying to itself and its people either about its understanding of this dogma, or about its form of state. because islam by definition, is designed to regulate everything in man's life. includes your relationships with your friends, your relatives and even your wife, has clear views on the distribution of wealth, business, taxation, laws, the state, everything you can think of that makes up your life.

now another disadvantage of islam is that it was brought to the world by stinking arabs. ignorant and uncivilized as they were, they interpreted mohammed's rules as negatively and badly as they could. exxaggerated the dogma's rules and opposed all developments in science, technology, philosophy, and arts, which humankind needs to understand the world. no wonder they fell behind the rest of the world. not to mention one of the biggest mistakes that the world of islam has made which is to separate the place and status of man and woman in society. i would like to add something to that, and tell you that this is not so in turkey, which has a secular state, but a majority of light-islamic population. (don't ask me how this is possible, this is also another subject and a very long one:) of course there are some problems )

anyway, when the world of islam defied all improvements and modernization, and was spinning its wheels (as we're on a car forum), europe (the world of christianity) got traction and started moving fast. europeans set for the open seas and started traveling around the globe, learning, improving, advancing, colonizing, industrializing, capitalizing and getting rich, while the lazy arabs and the rather-static world of islam sat and watched. truth be told, this includes turks.

and even though the fortunate arabs had the power of the oil, you will find that they are lousy about distributing that wealth among their peoples and that their people are poor and always have been.

so basically, the world is not divided into two different religions, but it is truly divided into two different status'. the rich and the poor. or in other words the powerful and the weak. the powerful claim and take what they need. and the weak can't afford / win wars and they go for dirty sneaky attacks at their enemies. which is terror.

in my opinion what we really need to see in the big picture is, as long as the wealth is such poorly distributed throughout the world, we are sure to have wars and terror. be it islam or judaism or christianity or any other dogma, the true reason behind all wars has always been money and power. in different forms maybe, but all is about money and power. be it in the form of gold or be it land or be it oil (as it is now). people are people and although there are genetical differences between some ethnicities, i believe the outcome would have been the same and we would have had terror still, even if every single man on earth were christians, or they were all muslims, or whatever.

thanks if you could bear with me & all the best

Edited September 26, 2006 by Serdar-S60T5

[Kashif]

now another disadvantage of islam is that it was brought to the world by stinking arabs.

anyway, when the world of islam defied all improvements and modernization, and was spinning its wheels (as we're on a car forum), europe (the world of christianity) got traction and started moving fast. europeans set for the open seas and started traveling around the globe, learning, improving, advancing, colonizing, industrializing, capitalizing and getting rich, while the lazy arabs and the rather-static world of islam sat and watched. truth be told, this includes turks.

I am not an arab but you my ignorant friend are a racist and bigot.

Plus you don't know your history, during the Middle Ages while europe was languishing in the Dark Ages it was the Islamic culture who were expanding the boundaries of science, art and culture. Go read a book.

Edited September 26, 2006 by Kashif

[Serdar-S60T5]

I am not an arab but you my ignorant friend are a racist and bigot.

Plus you don't know your history, during the Middle Ages while europe was languishing in the Dark Ages it was the Islamic culture who were expanding the boundaries of science, art and culture. Go read a book.

Edited September 27, 2006 by Serdar-S60T5

[Kashif]

i've read enough.

Could of fooled me.

yes i believe some ethnicities can in some ways be disadvantaged by some aspects in their genetics

Well if you actually study science in any meaningful way you would realize that is pure stupidity. If I practiced medicine with your kind of self rightous mentality I would drummed out of med school quicker then you can say "Nazi Eugenics"

Go read up on Eugenics

By the way is AtaTurk your role model or something?

Edited September 27, 2006 by Kashif

[Serdar-S60T5]

Could of fooled me.

did you mean "could have fooled" ?

go read up on some grammer in your native language, doctor.

Well if you actually study science in any meaningful way you would realize that is pure stupidity. If I practiced medicine with your kind of self rightous mentality I would drummed out of med school quicker then you can say "Nazi Eugenics"

really? are you a genetical engineer?

Go read up on Eugenics

ok, will do that.

By the way is AtaTurk your role model or something?

no, he sure is not. not him or any other fascist dictator. where did you get that idea?

[Kashif]

did you mean "could have fooled" ?

go read up on some grammer in your native language, doctor.

You see in America and Canada that's called colloquial speech, go read up on colloquial speech.

really? are you a genetical engineer?

Genetic engineering has nothing to do with it, the ideas that phenotype dictate genotype is just plain wrong, even Mendel knew that when he did his simple pea plant experiments back in 1865.

Oh by the way, there is no such term as genetical engineer, maybe you should read up on grammer?

no, he sure is not. not him or any other fascist dictator. where did you get that idea?

Your constant elevation of the europe and the western culture over anything else seems to point to his idealogies.