EricF Posted August 25, 2006 Report Share Posted August 25, 2006 i don't think it'll work out that well. sxure in theory, but mike has already tried that.Totally missed his post about sleeving.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swedish Mike Posted August 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2006 Mike, have you given any thought to using some kind of steel block "girdle"?This might help stabilize the bottom end, but not sure if it will help with the cylinder movement.PS, I love the crazy stuff you guys experiment with!The bottom end is rock solid, they got a big girdle from stock. The problem is upper end of the cylinders.ATM made girdles to go around the cylinders but no function, broke between cylinders instead.Yeah, we do a lot of crazy things. Don´t know how many blocks I´ve killed in research... Eric: Parner? Haha, funny joke! Yeah, smaller cylinders are one solution but as I said, the head want at least 80 mm of the stock 81 mm for valves.Fit smaller valves would make me feel like a performance killer.... I e-mailed CN Blocks to see what they have to say./Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narxs70 Posted August 25, 2006 Report Share Posted August 25, 2006 man, you crazy Swedes. good luck and i know you will keep us up to date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCviggen Posted August 25, 2006 Report Share Posted August 25, 2006 man, you crazy Swedes.Yeah no stuff. I'm here trying to get over 300 crank while the Swedes are trying to figure out how not to crack the block in half at 1000 HP :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swedish Mike Posted August 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2006 One guy here told me he had 1200 hp before the block gave up but he had no time to register it. This engine is planned for a RWD drag car, they are looking for a block solution as well.BS or not, engine broke and no proof of anything./Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightInAVolvo Posted August 25, 2006 Report Share Posted August 25, 2006 Fuck guys... just toss some of that wasted cash my way... all i want is 350-400 whp... Go for the heat treated steel i wana see that bitch crank out 2k hp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swedish Mike Posted August 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2006 Our heads are awsome, they are used as 4 cyl heads in rally cross cars combined with steel block.They flow like crazy and can handle a lot of cylinder pressure.Best engine ever made (IMO) would be the Audi 5 cyl steel block and Volvo head, tried it but impossible./Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Che'_Moderator Posted August 25, 2006 Report Share Posted August 25, 2006 Only way to make it really strong is to go down in bore and use thick sleeves. Around 77 mm should do the job but the head wouldn´t match and would need to go down in valve size.We already thought of all this. /MikeRemachined the the block and used 11mm pinned sleeves. Still a wet sleeve design but I doubt would hold much over 900hp. You could fill the block at that point and pull much higher numbers though. At least for a short time. How much hp you looking to make and at what RPM? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swedish Mike Posted August 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2006 Remachined the the block and used 11mm pinned sleeves. Still a wet sleeve design but I doubt would hold much over 900hp. You could fill the block at that point and pull much higher numbers though. At least for a short time. How much hp you looking to make and at what RPM?The only problem I can see with sleeves is the weak support behind them, to get around this you need thick sleeves and that will give you small bore. Can´t go wide cause the cylinders are to close to each other.What is pinned sleeves? Most guys in need of a block like this are heading for 1000+hp. At maybe 9500 rpm like the 800 hp one./Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Che'_Moderator Posted August 25, 2006 Report Share Posted August 25, 2006 The only problem I can see with sleeves is the weak support behind them, to get around this you need thick sleeves and that will give you small bore. Can´t go wide cause the cylinders are to close to each other.What is pinned sleeves? Most guys in need of a block like this are heading for 1000+hp. At maybe 9500 rpm like the 800 hp one./MikeThis sounds too easy but for 1100 and less HP on a drag engine why not sleeve/fill and just destroke the engine. No reason you could not rev it up a bot to account for less stroke. You would endure a much lower harmonic penalty and also lower tension on the sleeve through out the stroke. Obviously the piston face would need redesigned but at the level your talking.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swedish Mike Posted August 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2006 This sounds too easy but for 1100 and less HP on a drag engine why not sleeve/fill and just destroke the engine. No reason you could not rev it up a bot to account for less stroke. You would endure a much lower harmonic penalty and also lower tension on the sleeve through out the stroke. Obviously the piston face would need redesigned but at the level your talking....The problem is this, the upper part of the cylinders can´t handle the massive pressure.Even if you use sleeves you can´t make them really strong cause the cylinders are to close to each other.They normally brake between the cylinders and this area is hard to make really strong.Hard.../Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Che'_Moderator Posted August 25, 2006 Report Share Posted August 25, 2006 The problem is this, the upper part of the cylinders can´t handle the massive pressure.Even if you use sleeves you can´t make them really strong cause the cylinders are to close to each other.They normally brake between the cylinders and this area is hard to make really strong.Hard.../MikeSleeve-weld-machineMost sleevs are at the least 120,000 PSI. Thats twice the force of a .45 hand gun. You sure its pressure cracking the sleeves? I would guess resonance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricF Posted August 25, 2006 Report Share Posted August 25, 2006 Eric: Parner? Haha, funny joke! To his credit though he has put out some really crazy red block stuff, I know he makes (well, has some made for him surely) custom blocks to get the red blocks to very high displacement...Along the lines of where Charles is going, longer pistons will also help with side-loading on the cylinder walls.. But, at 9500 RPM you may not want to make the pistons any longer. Shorter stroke would be a nice compromise, and any loss of torque will be negligible with boost in the equation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajhehr Posted August 26, 2006 Report Share Posted August 26, 2006 So if someone was to make a steel block,... could you just Copy the al block?or would i need to change the block design?where do you find a chunk of billet steel to machine?I asume that you would have to machine it, otherwise the casting mold would be BIG $$$So if you can copy the stock blockthen its alot of cam measuring and about 2 days in a cnc mill? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swedish Mike Posted August 26, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2006 Sleeve-weld-machineMost sleevs are at the least 120,000 PSI. Thats twice the force of a .45 hand gun. You sure its pressure cracking the sleeves? I would guess resonance.They don´t crack, they expand, looks like a trumphet. Cracks would be easier to solve.My guess is that they expand because lack of support, the soft alu around is not good enough.Eric: Most of his stuff is copies of Kohler Racing stuff and Kohler engines win races.Most of Parners crazy stuff never reach the customer.ajhehr: Yeah, I would copy the stock block but remove water pump housing and a few other parts to make it easier to make. And of course, change the area around the cylinders./Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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