Jack Meoff

[Zappo]

Why is it that EvolveT5R and Starfish like to go off topic in this forum? If you want to talk about North Korea, start a new thread!

[exexpat]

Looking at Sigon, the stuff that is made there is printed "made in USA," but how come they have a different sallary and living condition which is AT HALF the line of poverty and minimum wage in the US? Tom Delay saw this and said it was a great accomplishment for U.S. capatalism, it isn't something to be proud of. Capatalist is taking advantage of poor countries for largre company profits.

~Mike

coming from someone who has never been in asia, I bet. My warehouse staff in china earned USD$50 per month, 1/2 of US poverty income in most of SE Asia would be monumental.

[///RonalT5]

coming from someone who has never been in asia, I bet. My warehouse staff in china earned USD$50 per month, 1/2 of US poverty income in most of SE Asia would be monumental.

Yes, that is a lot for China, but don't you think a USA runned territory would have at least minimum wage, it only seems fair. But, not even $5 a day, when working hours are like 12, that aint cool?

~Mike

Why is it that EvolveT5R and Starfish like to go off topic in this forum? If you want to talk about North Korea, start a new thread!

I don't know, it is just we like to debate politics.

~Mike

[exexpat]

Yes, that is a lot for China, but don't you think a USA runned territory would have at least minimum wage, it only seems fair. But, not even $5 a day, when working hours are like 12, that aint cool?

All I can say is that at $50 per month, we were 20% above domestic company rates. $5 an hour would be the wage of someone with a bachelor's degree and 2-3 years experience. The skill and education level in Vietnam is roughly equal to China, so you could give them Singaporean style wages and kill the competitiveness of that economy and bring it to its knees, or you pay prevailing wages plus a little and keep people employed whilst gradually improving the economy (i.e. the status quo). The tiger economies are progressing quite well (check growth rates). In the small time I lived in Shanghai (3 years) the progress in living standards, wages and quality of life was amazing. When you combine these pluses with an average education level that will soon surpass ours, only population density and lack of infrastructure holds them back.

Edited October 21, 2006 by exexpat

[///RonalT5]

All I can say is that at $50 per month, we were 20% above domestic company rates. $5 an hour would be the wage of someone with a bachelor's degree and 2-3 years experience. The skill and education level in Vietnam is roughly equal to China, so you could give them Singaporean style wages and kill the competitiveness of that economy and bring it to its knees, or you pay prevailing wages plus a little and keep people employed whilst gradually improving the economy (i.e. the status quo). The tiger economies are progressing quite well (check growth rates). In the small time I lived in Shanghai (3 years) the progress in living standards, wages and quality of life was amazing. When you combine these pluses with an average education level that will soon surpass ours, only population density and lack of infrastructure holds them back.

I totally agree and I am pleased to here about the good working conditions, but we all know about some 'sweatshops' that aren't as in good condition, and it frustrates me that all the places can't be as you say they are.

~Mike

[starfish]

But then how come no nuclear weapons were found in N. Korea during the Clinton administration? That doesn't make any sense, and about those liberals, they don't have the balls to stand up for what they believe in cause they would be viewed as a terrorist sypathiser (bad spelling), a little bit of McCarthiasm (and he was republican mind you).

Mike, where in the world do you do you come up with this jibberish?

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadA...le.asp?ID=17007

"It was not George W. Bush's foreign policy -- which has liberated one nation from the tyranny of a madman craving WMDs -- that allowed North Korea to build nuclear weapons. The DPRK may have already possessed more than one such missile by the time he got into office in 2001. It was Bill Clinton's nonfeasance that bought Pyongyang almost ten years to pursue nuclear weapons development. Shortly after North Korea first announced its nuclear program, former president Jimmy Carter rushed to the workers paradise to conduct personal, unauthorized peace talks. As Bill Clinton attempted to play it tough in public, Carter promised North Korea's leaders that no military response would be forthcoming, a promise Clinton later felt duty-bound to keep. Thus did Clinton allow the weak-kneed former president to conduct a private foreign policy in his stead. Carter and Clinton drew up a massive transfer of wealth -- a bribe -- in return for North Korea's unverifiable promise to end its nuclear program. As part of the deal, the United States provided North Korea with light-water nuclear reactors, food, and fuel oil (some 10,000 metric tons of which was diverted to the Red Chinese Army).

Bill Clinton offered a different "solution" during this time period. In August 1998, North Korea launched a Taepo Dong missile over Japan's northernmost island. Two months later, the United States re-opened direct, bilateral talks with North Korea -- rushing a generous $15 million aid package to the DPRK in the meantime. Throughout his presidency, Bill Clinton met North Korean belligerence with tough words and fistfuls of dollars. It was eight years of treading water. And that decade cost the lives of uncounted thousands of hapless North Korean citizens whom the government starved to death while pursuing WMDs."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061011/ap_on_...s_nuclear"

Bush gave scant attention to that domestic blame game, repeatedly turning the spotlight back on what he called "North Korea's provocation."

He said he learned North Korea can't be trusted from the experience of the Clinton administration's 1994 pact with Pyongyang, which offered energy help in return for a nuclear freeze but which the North secretly defied nearly from the start. He defended his decision to switch nearly immediately to a policy of refusing to talk with North Korea except when other regional players were also at the table.

"I appreciate the efforts of previous administrations. It just didn't work," he said.

quote name='EvolveT5R' date='Oct 19 2006, 09:10 AM' post='790414']

And capatlist america is not something to be proud of. Looking at Sigon, the stuff that is made there is printed "made in USA," but how come they have a different sallary and living condition which is AT HALF the line of poverty and minimum wage in the US? Tom Delay saw this and said it was a great accomplishment for U.S. capatalism, it isn't something to be proud of. Capatalist is taking advantage of poor countries for largre company profits.

~Mike

[USMC850T]

I don't have time to read all these posts, but I'll just throw this in since i'm a political science major.

Jack Abramoff, and his peers are the American political system. Intrest groups, which represent larger segments of the population, drive policy. Lobbyists like Abramoff are simply an extension of these groups. Like it or not, this is the way our system operates.

[///RonalT5]

Mike, where in the world do you do you come up with this jibberish?

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadA...le.asp?ID=17007

"It was not George W. Bush's foreign policy -- which has liberated one nation from the tyranny of a madman craving WMDs -- that allowed North Korea to build nuclear weapons. The DPRK may have already possessed more than one such missile by the time he got into office in 2001. It was Bill Clinton's nonfeasance that bought Pyongyang almost ten years to pursue nuclear weapons development. Shortly after North Korea first announced its nuclear program, former president Jimmy Carter rushed to the workers paradise to conduct personal, unauthorized peace talks. As Bill Clinton attempted to play it tough in public, Carter promised North Korea's leaders that no military response would be forthcoming, a promise Clinton later felt duty-bound to keep. Thus did Clinton allow the weak-kneed former president to conduct a private foreign policy in his stead. Carter and Clinton drew up a massive transfer of wealth -- a bribe -- in return for North Korea's unverifiable promise to end its nuclear program. As part of the deal, the United States provided North Korea with light-water nuclear reactors, food, and fuel oil (some 10,000 metric tons of which was diverted to the Red Chinese Army).

Bill Clinton offered a different "solution" during this time period. In August 1998, North Korea launched a Taepo Dong missile over Japan's northernmost island. Two months later, the United States re-opened direct, bilateral talks with North Korea -- rushing a generous $15 million aid package to the DPRK in the meantime. Throughout his presidency, Bill Clinton met North Korean belligerence with tough words and fistfuls of dollars. It was eight years of treading water. And that decade cost the lives of uncounted thousands of hapless North Korean citizens whom the government starved to death while pursuing WMDs."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061011/ap_on_...s_nuclear"

Bush gave scant attention to that domestic blame game, repeatedly turning the spotlight back on what he called "North Korea's provocation."

He said he learned North Korea can't be trusted from the experience of the Clinton administration's 1994 pact with Pyongyang, which offered energy help in return for a nuclear freeze but which the North secretly defied nearly from the start. He defended his decision to switch nearly immediately to a policy of refusing to talk with North Korea except when other regional players were also at the table.

"I appreciate the efforts of previous administrations. It just didn't work," he said.

quote name='EvolveT5R' date='Oct 19 2006, 09:10 AM' post='790414']

And capatlist america is not something to be proud of. Looking at Sigon, the stuff that is made there is printed "made in USA," but how come they have a different sallary and living condition which is AT HALF the line of poverty and minimum wage in the US? Tom Delay saw this and said it was a great accomplishment for U.S. capatalism, it isn't something to be proud of. Capatalist is taking advantage of poor countries for largre company profits.

~Mike

Sigon??? Do you mean Saigon, like in Vietnam? If you see merchandise that is beeing made in Vietnam that has a "Made in U.S.A" label, it is counterfeit dumbass! I don't know where you have learned what you conceive to be accurate descriptions of political, economical or cultural information, but you must be living in some weird parallel universe where up is down, left is right and backwards is forwards. Do yourself a favor and quit listening to those wigged out, flowers in their hair, Birkenstock wearing hippies!

Liberalism is a mental disorder. Proven correct 100% of the time.

1) I apologize, it is Saipan, read about it, enlighten yourself dumb@$$... http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/05/09/real.delay/

2) There first link is off a super-conservative website, so don't pull that sh*t. You want facts, go to CNN, not some unheard of crap that you find on one of your conservative bookmarks. The second site doesn't work, so perhaps it was deleted cause it was BS.

3) Wwe did the trade-off because we didn't want N. Korea making any nucs, and guess what, THEY DIDN'T. LOOK UP THAT ON CNN!!! I don't care if they made them then, cause they weren't testing them, the world was not in tourmoil or afraid of being blasted into the stone-age!!!

4) If you think that taking advantage of people, wherever they may be, in Asian countries or anywhere, to make a F*(king profit, you don't deserve to be considered American or have a heart. Ever see that show on ABC where the American Company, I forget the name, makes all of their clothing in LA and makes a profit without outsourcing to countries and paying them little. and we have to remember, even if they get some money a day, they don't have time to go out and spend it. They work 12-14 hour shifts. If the USA wants to be the muthaFu(king policemen of the world, y don't we do something about the horible stuff like that?

5) You put all this blame on Clinton, and wait, I don't remember any wars during Clinton's time... (except the one where we prevented Genocide. Find me ONE article in a respected newspaper, and I will be convinced.

6) Anyone who cares for another is not considered a "wigged out, flowers in their hair, Birkenstock wearing hippies!" That is the typical stereotype that is not only wrong, but offensive. It is like saying all conservatives are STUPID farmers in the middle of nowhere or people who just care about money, and it isn't true, except for maybe you starfish, so I have an idea...

WHY DON'T YOU TAKE YOUR SELFISH , MONEY WANTING, TAKING ADVANTAGE OF PEOPLE ATTITUDE, HIPPIE HATING, CONSERVATIVE @$$ OVER TO IRAQ, AND FIGHT YOUR WAR AND FU(K OTHER PEOPLE FOR YOUR OWN SELF-GAIN!!!

Maybe an insurgent who is figting for the liberation of his country will put you straight... then and only then will you realive of totally wrong you are.

~Mike

Starfish is a douche 100% of the time.

P.S. I am sorry admins, I won't get all P.O. about this anymore...

[starfish]

I don't have time to read all these posts, but I'll just throw this in since i'm a political science major.

Jack Abramoff, and his peers are the American political system. Intrest groups, which represent larger segments of the population, drive policy. Lobbyists like Abramoff are simply an extension of these groups. Like it or not, this is the way our system operates.

Thank you for your point and it is well taken (at least it will be by me). People fail to realize that we are all lobbyists in one form or another. There is no such thing as "the little guy" who is left out of the eyes of government.

[///RonalT5]

Thank you for your point and it is well taken (at least it will be by me). People fail to realize that we are all lobbyists in one form or another. There is no such thing as "the little guy" who is left out of the eyes of government.

+1, we finally agree on something.

~Mike

[starfish]

1) I apologize, it is Saipan, read about it, enlighten yourself dumb@$$... http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/05/09/real.delay/

Hmmm....Okay I'll read it, but why for such a smarty like you is your written expression so poor?

quote name='EvolveT5R' date='Oct 21 2006, 05:59 PM' post='792969']

2) There first link is off a super-conservative website, so don't pull that sh*t. You want facts, go to CNN, not some unheard of crap that you find on one of your conservative bookmarks. The second site doesn't work, so perhaps it was deleted cause it was BS.

[///RonalT5]

QUOTE:

http://www.noagenda.org/connections/jack_abramoff/

Once again, you fail to give me a non-biast news link that just bashes democrats. It's ok that you don't want to admit that this government is doing a crappy job, second to Carter, that's ok. Just don't miss guide people about all of this bs 'news' that you get your information from. All you have to do is read the news, look at the TV, read books (possibly the 911 commision report), and you will see that the war on terror is failing, the Bush administration is failing, and the republicans are BRAINDEAD becuase Bush makes a bill and everyone in the house and senate aproves of it without a secon glance...what ever happened to 'checks and balances?' Thank God the democrats will win the house and possibly the senate to put a stop to all of this conservative crap that has plumeted us into a state of denial. Are you a politician, or y are you so adimate that liberalism is a 'mental dissorder?' You probably live in the middle of no where or in the middle of Tennessee...Whatever dude, just try to open your eyes a little and don't always conform to what your party makes you believe, because they are not always right. The republicans are doing a horrible job, and it is time for change, that is all there is to it. If democrats don't do a good job, then we need to switch back, it is cycle.

~Mike

[the underlørd]

i like the new thread title much better... and it'll get more hits now.

[///RonalT5]

i like the new thread title much better... and it'll get more hits now.

+1.

~Mike

[USMC850T]

Please tell me how the war on terror is failing. I'm interested to know...