Afghanistan, Iraq, And The War On Terrorism

[Plan_B]

I do not understand why Irag's are killing other Irag's, anyone care to explain that to me?

[///RonalT5]

Not winning the war? We haven't lost a military battle yet!

Winning 'battles' at the cost of inocent human lives that did no have to be lost is not considered winning.

And to Grant, It is a civil war with radical islamic sects fighting each other under the same borders. This is why Democracy will not work, and I still do not know how the Republicans think it will, it is just flat out stupid. It took a long time for democracy to work in the U.S., and we didn't have different religious groups bombing the crap out each other! I just don't see where this war is going, and neither does the rest of the World. Bush says that Democrats don't have a plan... well he is right, cause the democrats are perplexed where to start because the administration has F'ed so much stuff up, it is hard to say where to start. Sorry, I am a little pissed because my uncle is going off for a third trip to Iraq, and I don't think he should go, I apologize.

~Mike

[RAzOR]

QUOTE(Plan B @ Nov 3 2006, 09:05 AM) ←I do not understand why Irag's are killing other Irag's, anyone care to explain that to me?

Edited November 3, 2006 by RAzOR

[fromtheshadows]

Rebuild Iraq? We havent even finished New Orleans! haha

"rules of war" Thats some funny ish man. I agree on one point "RAzor" and that is that our top levels of the executive branch thought the war would be over with the conquer of IRAQ. They were obviously wrong. Somewhat of a major miscalculation. If you made such a grievous err in your job you'd be fired. However, rozor, you still lose for backing idiots.

Can we win this war? Sure we can, We won Vietnam didn't we.. didnt we guys? and the "cold war" too right?

jeez i wonder where all those darn kalashnikovs came from?...

Edited November 4, 2006 by ashman

[starfish]

Winning 'battles' at the cost of inocent human lives that did no have to be lost is not considered winning.

And to Grant, It is a civil war with radical islamic sects fighting each other under the same borders. This is why Democracy will not work, and I still do not know how the Republicans think it will, it is just flat out stupid. It took a long time for democracy to work in the U.S., and we didn't have different religious groups bombing the crap out each other! I just don't see where this war is going, and neither does the rest of the World. Bush says that Democrats don't have a plan... well he is right, cause the democrats are perplexed where to start because the administration has F'ed so much stuff up, it is hard to say where to start. Sorry, I am a little pissed because my uncle is going off for a third trip to Iraq, and I don't think he should go, I apologize.

~Mike

The Democrats indeed have a plan. It’s in the media on a daily basis. They tell us it on a daily basis. Why can’t you recognize it?

In the simplest terms, the liberal Democrat plan is opposition to anything constructive that would help end this war quickly. It is to attack the Bush agenda by creating a hysteria of hopelessness in the cause, by defeating the Patriot Act, by leaking intelligence to the enemy, by giving the enemy rights, by attacking the US soldier, by releasing the enemy from capture, by denying our ability to use our intelligence to track and bring the terrorists to justice, by giving the enemy comfort, by creating propaganda against the president or our military during wartime, by allowing the media to show the enemies snuff film propaganda on our televisions, by excusing the enemies plots, by using the US soldiers injury, death or funeral as a political tool, by becoming a traitor or failing to prosecute traitors, by being a general nuisance.

[///RonalT5]

The Democrats indeed have a plan. It’s in the media on a daily basis. They tell us it on a daily basis. Why can’t you recognize it?

In the simplest terms, the liberal Democrat plan is opposition to anything constructive that would help end this war quickly. It is to attack the Bush agenda by creating a hysteria of hopelessness in the cause, by defeating the Patriot Act, by leaking intelligence to the enemy, by giving the enemy rights, by attacking the US soldier, by releasing the enemy from capture, by denying our ability to use our intelligence to track and bring the terrorists to justice, by giving the enemy comfort, by creating propaganda against the president or our military during wartime, by allowing the media to show the enemies snuff film propaganda on our televisions, by excusing the enemies plots, by using the US soldiers injury, death or funeral as a political tool, by becoming a traitor or failing to prosecute traitors, by being a general nuisance.

Ever heard of the Constitution? How about the Geneva Acords? What about all the self dignity that this country prides itself on? You wanna sacrifise all that to torture someone you have no information on? Ever heard of Majar Arar? The Patriot Act is just a ridiculous plan to invade the privacy of the citizens that suspends Habeas Corpus... you know the last time somone did that? I believe it was Lincoln. The democrats, I agree, need to get a plan, but there plan, imo, would be better than the one now. RaZoR, I support you brother. We need new authority cuase the one right now isn't doing such great job.

~Mike

[Plan_B]

The Democrats indeed have a plan. It’s in the media on a daily basis. They tell us it on a daily basis. Why can’t you recognize it?

In the simplest terms, the liberal Democrat plan is opposition to anything constructive that would help end this war quickly. It is to attack the Bush agenda by creating a hysteria of hopelessness in the cause, by defeating the Patriot Act, by leaking intelligence to the enemy, by giving the enemy rights, by attacking the US soldier, by releasing the enemy from capture, by denying our ability to use our intelligence to track and bring the terrorists to justice, by giving the enemy comfort, by creating propaganda against the president or our military during wartime, by allowing the media to show the enemies snuff film propaganda on our televisions, by excusing the enemies plots, by using the US soldiers injury, death or funeral as a political tool, by becoming a traitor or failing to prosecute traitors, by being a general nuisance.

You gonna answer my question?

[USMC850T]

Winning 'battles' at the cost of inocent human lives that did no have to be lost is not considered winning.

If you can cite one battle that was won at the cost of innocent human life I might be impressed. You are so hung up on the innocent civillian thing. Guess what, they die in wartime. It sucks, no one will argue that. This point seems to be one of your large objections to the war. I assume you are also opposed to the vietnam war, Korea, WWII, WWI and all the other wars where a much much greater number of non combattants were killed.

Ever heard of the Constitution? How about the Geneva Acords? What about all the self dignity that this country prides itself on? You wanna sacrifise all that to torture someone you have no information on? Ever heard of Majar Arar? The Patriot Act is just a ridiculous plan to invade the privacy of the citizens that suspends Habeas Corpus... you know the last time somone did that? I believe it was Lincoln.

Well I'm not sure what the geneva accords have to do with this, perhaps you meant the geneva conventions? If in fact you did mean to refer to the rules by which we treat prisoners of war, and not the terms by which the french military arranged a cease fire with cambodian and vietnamese forces, don't worry - they don't apply to terrorists..

The patriot act does not invade the privacy of your average citizen. It does, however, make it easier to monitor the communications of those whom come in contact and deal with known terrorists inside the country. Neither the NSA or any other of the intel bodies could give a flying fuck about you or anyone else. If for some reason they did want to know what we were up to, they wouldn't pass a bill to do so, because they can do it anyways. The patriot act helps legalize for court purposes the information they could collect anyways. Maybe you should take the time to actually read up on it.

As far as haebeas corpus is concerned, again, I see no application except for a detainee which has American citizenship. P.S. The rules of War (aka geneva conventions) only apply to uniformed soldiers committing violence on behalf of recognised governments. They do not apply to non state actors, committing acts of violence on behalf of non govovernmental orginizations, not following any of the recognised rules of war themselves.

[Che'_Moderator]

If you can cite one battle that was won at the cost of innocent human life I might be impressed. You are so hung up on the innocent civillian thing. Guess what, they die in wartime. It sucks, no one will argue that. This point seems to be one of your large objections to the war. I assume you are also opposed to the vietnam war, Korea, WWII, WWI and all the other wars where a much much greater number of non combattants were killed.

Well I'm not sure what the geneva accords have to do with this, perhaps you meant the geneva conventions? If in fact you did mean to refer to the rules by which we treat prisoners of war, and not the terms by which the french military arranged a cease fire with cambodian and vietnamese forces, don't worry - they don't apply to terrorists..

The patriot act does not invade the privacy of your average citizen. It does, however, make it easier to monitor the communications of those whom come in contact and deal with known terrorists inside the country. Neither the NSA or any other of the intel bodies could give a flying fuck about you or anyone else. If for some reason they did want to know what we were up to, they wouldn't pass a bill to do so, because they can do it anyways. The patriot act helps legalize for court purposes the information they could collect anyways. Maybe you should take the time to actually read up on it.

As far as haebeas corpus is concerned, again, I see no application except for a detainee which has American citizenship. P.S. The rules of War (aka geneva conventions) only apply to uniformed soldiers committing violence on behalf of recognised governments. They do not apply to non state actors, committing acts of violence on behalf of non govovernmental orginizations, not following any of the recognised rules of war themselves.

Just adding to that NSA, and FBI already do whatever they want anyways. Only a door knob thinks they have the same SOP say a beat cop has. And despite what DevolvedT5R thinks, we could fix Iraq. But everyone would scream bloody murder if we did what it took. Sending an army and nutering them into a "peace keeping" force is never a good idea. If you send an army, let them do what armys do. Declare martial law and enforce it. But too many liberals will not tolerate that. They would rather just accuse the government of over stepping its bounds then turn around and bitch when nothing changes

[USMC850T]

And despite what DevolvedT5R thinks, we could fix Iraq. But everyone would scream bloody murder if we did what it took. Sending an army and nutering them into a "peace keeping" force is never a good idea.

A lot of people forget our main focus has not really been on the security of Iraq. Since the hostilities between us and their army, we've mainly been trying to train the police and army as quickly as possible so that they may assume responsibility of controlling the nation. While I wish they would have concentrated a little more on the security aspect of things, the poeple charged with creating these policies do have far more information and experience than any of us monday morning quarterbacks when they make those decisions.

[///RonalT5]

ANyone heard of Cyprus Kar? Interesting stuff we did to him even though he was an american. Look it up, it is interesting. He is now sueing Rummy for being a douche.

~Mike

[starfish]

http://www.militantislammonitor.org/article/id/751

Five Iraqi born Muslims with American citizenship being held in Iraq on charges of aiding Al Zarqawi terrorists - Update

Five arrested for 'engaging in suspicious activities'

July 7, 2005

MIM: The family of one of the 5 American citizens arrested in Iraq on terrorism charges has gotten the ACLU( which specialises in aiding and abetting terrorists ) to proclaim that an Iraqi born American passport holder who was found in a taxi with washing machine timers in the trunk is simply a victim of anti Muslim . Even more outrageous is that he claims that the "washing machine timers belonged to the taxi driver who was bringing them to a friend".

Which begs the question as to what was the real reason Kar went to a war zone to make a film about the Persian King Cyrus the Great . Even more outrageous is that when he was found in a taxi with bomb making components his family told the media that the 44 year old was an "innocent boy" who can't possibly be suspect since he is a military veteran!

"...On May 17, officials and family say, he was traveling with an Iranian filmmaker after leaving a Baghdad hotel when their taxi was stopped at a checkpoint.

Iraqi security forces allegedly seized several dozen washing machine timers in the taxi - components frequently used in terrorist bombs.

"I think most people would agree that's somewhat suspicious," said Pentagon spokesman Lt. Col. John Skinner... "

MIM: What could possibly be suspicious about going to a war zone in Afghanistan and Iraq to make a film about Cyrus the Great ? Even less suspicious is being found in a taxi together with an Iraqi filmmaker and a taxi driver who has 5 washing machine timers to be used in bombs. Lucky that one has the ACLU and an aunt who can tell the media that her 44 year old army verteran nephew "is an innocent boy". How convienent that one has an American passport and can cry about their constitutional rights being violated to get out from under terrorism charges...Wonder many millions Kar will be demanding when he files a lawsuit against the military with the help of ACLU lawyers ?

More dumb liberals trying to get in the way of things. How many times will I need to, or have to say it...

Liberalism is a mental disorder.

Edited November 19, 2006 by starfish

[USMC850T]

Interesting to read the different articles across the web about it. I can understand though why he was detained and held. I guess he was in the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong shit in his trunk.