USMC850T Posted November 29, 2006 Report Share Posted November 29, 2006 (edited) People who say the war is unwinnable fail to grasp exaclty what is going on over there. They are the same people who said after the TET offensive vietnam was unwinnable. Anyone who is remotely familiar with Veitnam knows TET was a disaster for the vietcong and marked the beggining of their demise. By no means is it going to be easy, but then again our nation is not standing where it is today because we took the easy way out of things. I feel that I've articulated my views more than enough times. I am currently working on the first half of my senior thesis paper which addresses 4th generation warfare, what it is, the difficulties it poses, and whether we should approach it using the military or police model. I will be sure to post it up here when i've finished it. Edited November 29, 2006 by USMC850T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Che'_Moderator Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 People who say the war is unwinnable fail to grasp exaclty what is going on over there. They are the same people who said after the TET offensive vietnam was unwinnable. Anyone who is remotely familiar with Veitnam knows TET was a disaster for the vietcong and marked the beggining of their demise. By no means is it going to be easy, but then again our nation is not standing where it is today because we took the easy way out of things. I feel that I've articulated my views more than enough times. I am currently working on the first half of my senior thesis paper which addresses 4th generation warfare, what it is, the difficulties it poses, and whether we should approach it using the military or police model. I will be sure to post it up here when i've finished it.We can't win. Only because the american public would shit is we did whats needed to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plan_B Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 We can't win. Only because the american public would shit is we did whats needed to win.And what do you think needs to be done to win? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Che'_Moderator Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 B)-->QUOTE(Plan B @ Nov 29 2006, 07:34 PM) ←And what do you think needs to be done to win?More killing. More draconian. The army is trained for pretty much one thing. If you want a hand holding sensitive post occupation force don't use the army. Post occupation also implies we stop lying to ourselves and just declare martial law and seize the country until we stabilize it. With that you cannot control a country that does not want to be reined in. But from what I hear from people on the ground there over half the people want us there. So what needs to be done is harsh and will cost lives. But again it does not matter. Americans are too soft. We will not stand for that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USMC850T Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 Yes, brutality is certainly one way to handle the situation. The US army is showing us how for the given situation there are other alternatives which certainly can work better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Che'_Moderator Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 Yes, brutality is certainly one way to handle the situation. The US army is showing us how for the given situation there are other alternatives which certainly can work better.Depends on who you want to kill. Hand holding gets your own killed and spares the population you occupy. Enforced martial law spares your own at the expense of the population. Either way the pound of flesh is coming from somewhere. I say declare martial law with a SOP than says no non-combatants can have weapons in public. If your caught you're executed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastboy Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 Just blow them up and pave over the sandlot. That seems to be the one thing that everybody who I have spoken to that was over there (Iraq,Afghanistan) agrees with. Nukes and a paving company. There might be public out cry but it would save the taxpayers money and they would all warm up to the idea if you put money back in their pockets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Che'_Moderator Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 Just blow them up and pave over the sandlot. That seems to be the one thing that everybody who I have spoken to that was over there (Iraq,Afghanistan) agrees with. Nukes and a paving company. There might be public out cry but it would save the taxpayers money and they would all warm up to the idea if you put money back in their pockets.Too much backlash. Its like Al Quada with the world trade center. Almost all the intel says they didnt mean to bring them down. Crashing an airframe into the WTC = attention. Leveling the entitre plaza = too much attention. With that I blame the media. Media has no bussiness in hot zones. In country sure, embedded no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAzOR Posted December 1, 2006 Report Share Posted December 1, 2006 (edited) The way we are fighting this war is beginning to worry me. Maybe in the beginning we were testing to see if this objective could be won through occupation and a Marshall Plan of reconstruction. I think we are seeing that due to the religeous nature of the enemy, that logic, reason, diplomacy and anything other than outright brutal annihaltion of radical Islam will NOT be the solution. Because it is a radical form of a religeon it cannot be reasoned with, it cannot be compromised with, it cannot be managed. It must be destroyed or, like a cancer cell, it will infect neighboring docile cells and turn them to cancerous cells as well. Sorry for the analogy, but that is the way it is beginning to appear to me. I have a great fear that, as Che said, the American people are too soft to fight this war they way it may NEED to be fought. And this greatly frightens me. Have we lost our sense of self respect as a country to the point where will not defend our way of life? As a sidenote, this a great wound from liberalism- self hate and applied guilt. The relentless Liberal drumbeat that America is bad, bigoted, intolerant, polluting, etc. It's all negative and I think it is beginning to take its toll on John Q. Public. Our leaders can't even figure out a simple plan to defend our Mexico border- why? I am not sure. Many like me are mystified and, again, in increasing fear of the weakness of the American public, which is weakness of America itself. We are afraid to stand up for ourselves for fear of being called "Racists". We won't even protect our own borders. It is a trend towards national suicide that was started inside the country itself with a political ideaology of self hate. I now feel that I see it in many, many failing efforts such as illegal immigration and the war in Iraq. Hopefully, I can't be sure that that is indeed the cause. I hope that it isn't. Edited December 1, 2006 by RAzOR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Che'_Moderator Posted December 1, 2006 Report Share Posted December 1, 2006 LOL and they call me a hawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USMC850T Posted December 1, 2006 Report Share Posted December 1, 2006 Insurgencies and gurellia wars tend not to work without outside intervention. US independance - France. etc. We can certainly seal up the borders quite well with all the air assets we have in theater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
///RonalT5 Posted December 1, 2006 Report Share Posted December 1, 2006 People who say the war is unwinnable fail to grasp exaclty what is going on over there. They are the same people who said after the TET offensive vietnam was unwinnable. Anyone who is remotely familiar with Veitnam knows TET was a disaster for the vietcong and marked the beggining of their demise. By no means is it going to be easy, but then again our nation is not standing where it is today because we took the easy way out of things. I feel that I've articulated my views more than enough times. I am currently working on the first half of my senior thesis paper which addresses 4th generation warfare, what it is, the difficulties it poses, and whether we should approach it using the military or police model. I will be sure to post it up here when i've finished it.Dude, are you kidding?!?! The vietcong was a specific group that was ONLY in vietnam. We are fighting an islamic EXTREMIST group, not a mitlitary militia. One person dies, another 5 people begin to hate us and want to kill all of us. We cannot win this, and more and more republicans are understanding why, except Bush. It is a falure, and there is no possible way to 'win.' It is a losing cause, and I don't even have a solution. We leave now, we give the extremists a country to take over, and if we keep fighting, we will gain more enemies, more casualties, and the hatred will be so great, the whole islamic religion will rage a holy war on us. Bush shot himself in the foot, and he has a hell of a ways to go before this is over.~Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Che'_Moderator Posted December 1, 2006 Report Share Posted December 1, 2006 Dude, are you kidding?!?! The vietcong was a specific group that was ONLY in vietnam. We are fighting an islamic EXTREMIST group, not a mitlitary militia. One person dies, another 5 people begin to hate us and want to kill all of us. We cannot win this, and more and more republicans are understanding why, except Bush. It is a falure, and there is no possible way to 'win.' It is a losing cause, and I don't even have a solution. We leave now, we give the extremists a country to take over, and if we keep fighting, we will gain more enemies, more casualties, and the hatred will be so great, the whole islamic religion will rage a holy war on us. Bush shot himself in the foot, and he has a hell of a ways to go before this is over.~MikeCome on nooble. You hit the nail on the head in your own post. We can win this. But like you said, "Its a holy war". If you really want to win this you have to do the unpopular thing. hats assuming your right. That they do not ant us there. If your going to point to past actions point to Somalia not Vietnam. There always ways to resolve conflicts. Its just some times ittt not worth it. IF you dont believe me go ask Pyrrhus. Go pick up some CGSC books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
///RonalT5 Posted December 1, 2006 Report Share Posted December 1, 2006 Come on nooble. You hit the nail on the head in your own post. We can win this. But like you said, "Its a holy war". If you really want to win this you have to do the unpopular thing. hats assuming your right. That they do not ant us there. If your going to point to past actions point to Somalia not Vietnam. There always ways to resolve conflicts. Its just some times ittt not worth it. IF you dont believe me go ask Pyrrhus. Go pick up some CGSC books.Well, when we are fighting this war 10 years from now, and it is still bloody and going no where, you can say I was right. ~Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAzOR Posted December 1, 2006 Report Share Posted December 1, 2006 LOL and they call me a hawkI'd call you a realist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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